I don't know what it is... I have tried Heroic Ramps a few times, and my group cannot even seem to get to the first boss. I know that heroics hit very hard, and are supposed to be quite a challenge, but I have been told that my group should at least be well enough geared to do H Ramps and H Slave Pens, and we just can't seem to do it. Part of it is inexperience, I am sure... Several of us have only been playing like 6 months, and these are our 1st toons to 70, but I am beginning to lose a little confidence.
Here is my usual group:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Arthang
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Beansprout
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Patsyneddie
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Maldictus
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Kalaelis
The Boomkin is overgeared compared to the rest of us, but I have enough knowledge of tanking as a Paladin that he doesn't draw aggro off of me, and the healer has decent gear, and everyone else seems like they at least meet the minimum requirements for the most part... we even get the trash mobs down pretty quick, but when there are more than 3 in a pull, I am face-down on the floor and everyone else is sprinting for the door. I think I get the kill-order right on the fights we have done, so I just don't know... Any suggestions?
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- Heroics just kill me... literally
Heroics just kill me... literallyFollow
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of Wisdom"-- Gandalf
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
Two Words: Crowd Control.
That is, your group doesn't have it. How's your hunter at trapping?
My group is of similar gear levels, but we have little trouble with (easier) heroics, as our DPS usually includes a mage and a rogue. so three mob pulls = 1 mob pulls for us.
That is, your group doesn't have it. How's your hunter at trapping?
My group is of similar gear levels, but we have little trouble with (easier) heroics, as our DPS usually includes a mage and a rogue. so three mob pulls = 1 mob pulls for us.
yeah yeah, paladin CC = constant consecration etc, but it sounds to me like you need some CC other than the hunter(assuming he traps well).
you have the gear, healer has sufficient gear, just too much damage incoming on you.
you have the gear, healer has sufficient gear, just too much damage incoming on you.
#4ownerg,
Posted: Aug 28 2008 at 12:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) its cuz your ally u might as well un install now :P jk
ownerg wrote:
its cuz your ally u might as well un install now :P jk
*twitch*
That can't be true. Alliance has to be good at PvE, because they're f*cking bad at PvP.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
ownerg wrote:
its cuz your ally u might as well un install now :P jk
*twitch*
That can't be true. Alliance has to be good at PvE, because they're f*cking bad at PvP.
Oh boy ain't that the truth!
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of Wisdom"-- Gandalf
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
Yeah, get a mage.
Seriously, it's going to be very tough to run heroics with just one cc, and a hunter at that. (I love hunters but the problem is if a mob resists a hunter's trap in a heroic the hunter often gets 2-shotted.) It's doable, certainly more so with a pally, but you guys appear to be at the minimum threshold for heroics (+1100 heals, etc) as opposed to overgeared. And you personally had better be overgeared if you expect to aoe tank those places.
I don't know gearing for any of your specs but I couldn't help but notice you've got some pre-70 greens on (bracer and belt if I recall) as do a couple of your teammates. And not much PvP gear. Again, I don't play any of your specs, but I know that the welfare epics can be a big step up in gearing for certain specs. I'm sure some of you could benefit.
Seriously, it's going to be very tough to run heroics with just one cc, and a hunter at that. (I love hunters but the problem is if a mob resists a hunter's trap in a heroic the hunter often gets 2-shotted.) It's doable, certainly more so with a pally, but you guys appear to be at the minimum threshold for heroics (+1100 heals, etc) as opposed to overgeared. And you personally had better be overgeared if you expect to aoe tank those places.
I don't know gearing for any of your specs but I couldn't help but notice you've got some pre-70 greens on (bracer and belt if I recall) as do a couple of your teammates. And not much PvP gear. Again, I don't play any of your specs, but I know that the welfare epics can be a big step up in gearing for certain specs. I'm sure some of you could benefit.
Well, yes, Welfare Epics as you so PERFECTLY named them can be a big step up in gear... However, there are maybe 3 problems with that in my case...
On my server, Alliance sucks in PvP (apparently my server is not the only one... read Mazra's post), so it takes WAY too long PvPing to get enough marks and honor for the Welfare Epics... more like SERIOUS WORK!
Also, I have fairly limited play time which I would MUCH rather spend doing PvE than PvP... I just find PvP kinda boring... just personal opinion. I am well aware that some people LOVE it- that just isn't me.
Finally, PvP gear has OK itemization for a Prot Paladin, but not great.
Anyway, I do have some quests now that will at least upgrade my bracers and belt to quest reward blues, so maybe I will replace one of my usual run-members with a rogue or a mage after I get those upgraded and see if some additional CC gets the job done.
Thanks for the help so far everyone!
On my server, Alliance sucks in PvP (apparently my server is not the only one... read Mazra's post), so it takes WAY too long PvPing to get enough marks and honor for the Welfare Epics... more like SERIOUS WORK!
Also, I have fairly limited play time which I would MUCH rather spend doing PvE than PvP... I just find PvP kinda boring... just personal opinion. I am well aware that some people LOVE it- that just isn't me.
Finally, PvP gear has OK itemization for a Prot Paladin, but not great.
Anyway, I do have some quests now that will at least upgrade my bracers and belt to quest reward blues, so maybe I will replace one of my usual run-members with a rogue or a mage after I get those upgraded and see if some additional CC gets the job done.
Thanks for the help so far everyone!
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of Wisdom"-- Gandalf
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
3 posts
Quote:
cc helps a lot but with a pally tank its not really worth while
Umm, what? CC is effective no matter who is tanking. Just because there is a greater chance of a pally breaking crowd control with consecrate than of a druid breaking it with swipe or a warrior breaking it with thunder clap doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. It just means that it needs to be used with a plan.
If you are having problems with incoming damage, by all means you need to use cc. Have the hunter set his trap well back from where you plan to tank and use distracting shot to pull the mob from you to him. With some practice he will be able to time his traps to at least get 2 uses out of them to hold the mob in place. Don't use consecrate until after he has pulled the trap-mob off of you and you are left with 2 instead of 3 to tank. Take your time making pulls, you aren't in a race to see who can finish first.
I'm also voting for a bit more crowd control if you can manage it. There are a couple of pulls in H Ramps that can get really ugly without a couple of cc classes. Overall the group is decently geared, but as ownerg mentioned you may want to increase your health pool in order to be a bit more resistant to the big hits.
Not sure how much research you've done about tanking in WoW, but you may want to visit some sites that have tutorials. At the risk of having my post deleted, I'll point you in the direction of tankspot.com for starters.
I hate people that misuse literally like you do.
P.S. Get them to pull mobs out of Consecration and then CC them. Never tank more than two mobs with your gear level.
P.S. Get them to pull mobs out of Consecration and then CC them. Never tank more than two mobs with your gear level.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
Get that hunter in hunter school! :P That's the only thing I can think of too. It appears you are all from the same guild so I can see how it might be hard to change your group up. Another option might be to have your warrior bring a shield along and offtank a mob. If your druid is more geared than the rest and is a dps, it may not kill your dps to have the warrior on a different target.
Another option if this just are not working might be to have you go holy, your warrior tank, and have the priest go dps and use mind control to CC two mobs while the hunter traps one. Yeah its a bit zany, but sometimes you have to try new things! :P
Another option if this just are not working might be to have you go holy, your warrior tank, and have the priest go dps and use mind control to CC two mobs while the hunter traps one. Yeah its a bit zany, but sometimes you have to try new things! :P
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
1. Ramps isn't the easiest heroic
2. If you can't trap by heroics, you have to get another hunter or start with regular runs and practice. Not being mean, but I literally had to teach a hunter how to freeze trap in MgT the other night.
3. Tank still has greens. Get your SSO rep up and buy the shield, 1k more armor right there.
4. Check your kill order/CC. I know that there are one or two mobs that hit extremely hard in ramps. CC them first so that you can devote your attention to them, burn the mages down first.
You should be geared enough to get through it, make sure everyone is using elixirs and food, that can make the difference.
Read your logs and figure out who is doing the damage and what is killing you. Your healer should be able to keep you up, 1k is the min for Kara.
2. If you can't trap by heroics, you have to get another hunter or start with regular runs and practice. Not being mean, but I literally had to teach a hunter how to freeze trap in MgT the other night.
3. Tank still has greens. Get your SSO rep up and buy the shield, 1k more armor right there.
4. Check your kill order/CC. I know that there are one or two mobs that hit extremely hard in ramps. CC them first so that you can devote your attention to them, burn the mages down first.
You should be geared enough to get through it, make sure everyone is using elixirs and food, that can make the difference.
Read your logs and figure out who is doing the damage and what is killing you. Your healer should be able to keep you up, 1k is the min for Kara.
I will go to the animal shelter and get you a kitty-cat. I will let you fall in love with that kitty-cat. And then, on some dark, cold night, I will steal away into your home, and PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE.
If you have the money you could get the Belt of the Guardian and the Oathkeepers Helm crafted for you, I've got them in the bank waiting for when I hit 70. Of course it's not my first level 70 so I had a bit more cash lying around. Try running some more normal 70 instances to replace your greens. Getting exulted with the Shattered Sun Offensive isn't too hard either if you do dailys and the odd normal MGT and you can get their epic shield (and the epic gem for doing it once).
Edit: NephthysWanderer beat me to it.
Edited, Aug 28th 2008 7:12pm by ViralVD
Edit: NephthysWanderer beat me to it.
Edited, Aug 28th 2008 7:12pm by ViralVD
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. "
~Frank Sinatra
~Frank Sinatra
Since you mentioned (or at least suggested) that you run with the same people most of the time, swapping someone out isn't an option. Here I go with the cranky pseudo-lecture again:
For those of you saying, "drop someone for a mage" or anything along those lines, grab hold of a clue and try to figure out how to use it, ya? Heroic Ramparts has very little by way of trash diversity. The group the OP mentioned has plenty of CC for the dungeon.
Remember one thing: dogs. Non-elite but hit like trucks and stack a bleed effect on their target (see also: no mitigation without resilience). Also detect stealth. Hmmm...wait wut? Mage can do...what to dogs? Ahhh...yes...poly...morph? Ohhhhh but damn Slappy, if ya'll weren't so friggin' used to having your hands held through content and insisting on the no brainer solution, you'd remember that Druids have Hibernate! zomfg more cc wut? I've done heroic Shadow Labs with a prot warrior, feral druid, balance druid, hunter, and holy paladin. Wut? According to the logic here, that's only 1 CC...and no pally tank...for heroic Shadow Labs? o.O Cyclone spam makes for a fantastic ranged interrupt and can be a lifesaver on the channeler/fel orc pulls when you just need to cut down a bit on some of the incoming damage.
Think, guys...think.
So ya, Heroic Ramparts. First pull...pull to back of landing so you don't get aggro from the solo orc on the bridge. No CC required. Second pull...solo orc on bridge. Third pull...2 orcs on other side of bridge...can trap one near entrance if you really want but remember to pull them back so you don't get aggro from the pat...speaking of which...
4th pull...one orc, two dogs. Hibernate one dog. Kill other dog before orc. Kill orc. Kill sleeping dog. Loot. Profit.
Next 2-3 pulls...three mobs each. Trap one. It can be done...just involves a bit of finesse (if this is your static group for heroics, talk to your Hunter about respeccing SV and grind Steamvaults until you puke or he gets at least 2 pieces of the beast lord set. With a little practice, he'll be a double trapping hellion in no time). Better to discuss a respec and help them fill out some chewy lewt spots than drop someone altogether for an ez-mode CC class.
Next pull...2 orcs, 2 dogs. Trap orc. Sleep dog. Kill not sleepy dog, kill orc, kill trapped orc, kill sleepy dog. Loot.
Next pull...4-pull. 3 orc casters and stupid cranky orc in middle. Always kill cranky orc first or he gets double cranky when he sees his caster buddies eat dirt. Pull back...pull way back...have your hunter run up and drop a trap under one of the casters. If you're feeling squeamish, have the hunter put their pet on another of the casters but remember...you pulled back, yes? Don't have a hunter pet on a caster unless the caster been pulled back a fair bit or your hunter's pet is going to get violated by the dog calling guy and his two Destroyer lovers...and dogs...then they're going to turn on you. Pull. The casters. Back. Hunter pet on caster = dead hunter pet fast, but it's just a delay tactic...the hunter should not attack the caster or use mend pet...at all. The hunter does not want threat on the caster when the pet dies or the hunter will die next (or your healer). Pet. Only.
Kill cranky orc. Kill nearest caster. Kill next nearest caster. Kill last caster. Huzzah!
Next pull...the dog summoning orc and the pair of Destroyers...kill dog summoner first. Don't worry about spazzing out and zomfg kill before summon! Do it right...just kill him...if he summons the dogs and you wipe, so what? He's dead. Baibai doggies. The Destroyers are going to be dishing out some hurt. Try a frost trap to slow them off the pull. Try cyclone spam to shut them down a bit. Mortal Strike will make your healer blubber. It's bad, but it's an ugly pull so just do your best and get the dog summoning orc down.
By now this is pretty formulaic, ya? You'll never see more than 2 dogs in a pull so hibernate one of them. Win. There are only 2 pulls I can think of off the top of my head that involve more than 4 mobs....the channeler/caster guys at the top of the ramp after the first boss and the one pull on the platform between Omor and Nazran (which can actually be done as a 4-pull + single if you time it perfectly but this isn't about perfect, it's about win).
For the pull at the top of the ramp, use LoS. Use frost traps. Use your hunter's pet. Use whatever you need to use to mitigate as much incoming damage as you can until the orc and at least one caster are down and then you should be fine. Watch your healer.
Never ever not once ever EVER should your hunter be dropping their first trap right at the pull in a heroic dungeon. The pull is timed around the hunter's trap cooldown, and you cannot Richard around. You go when the hunter says you go or you wait for another trap drop/cooldown cycle. Everyone full mana with targets marked and clear strategy? Everyone best be ready for the pull or they risk botching the hunter's backup options in case their first trap is resisted. Hunter drops trap, waits on cooldown, you pull. Hunter's trap is still on the ground but timed properly, they can drop another one immediately after either a) their mob goes into the trap or b) the mob resists the first trap. It's a safety plan that works wonders but does not fit with groups where everyone thinks it's snack/smoke/**** time between each and every pull. Heroics = on your toes 'cause it's go-time.
Edited, Aug 28th 2008 4:24pm by AureliusSir
For those of you saying, "drop someone for a mage" or anything along those lines, grab hold of a clue and try to figure out how to use it, ya? Heroic Ramparts has very little by way of trash diversity. The group the OP mentioned has plenty of CC for the dungeon.
Remember one thing: dogs. Non-elite but hit like trucks and stack a bleed effect on their target (see also: no mitigation without resilience). Also detect stealth. Hmmm...wait wut? Mage can do...what to dogs? Ahhh...yes...poly...morph? Ohhhhh but damn Slappy, if ya'll weren't so friggin' used to having your hands held through content and insisting on the no brainer solution, you'd remember that Druids have Hibernate! zomfg more cc wut? I've done heroic Shadow Labs with a prot warrior, feral druid, balance druid, hunter, and holy paladin. Wut? According to the logic here, that's only 1 CC...and no pally tank...for heroic Shadow Labs? o.O Cyclone spam makes for a fantastic ranged interrupt and can be a lifesaver on the channeler/fel orc pulls when you just need to cut down a bit on some of the incoming damage.
Think, guys...think.
So ya, Heroic Ramparts. First pull...pull to back of landing so you don't get aggro from the solo orc on the bridge. No CC required. Second pull...solo orc on bridge. Third pull...2 orcs on other side of bridge...can trap one near entrance if you really want but remember to pull them back so you don't get aggro from the pat...speaking of which...
4th pull...one orc, two dogs. Hibernate one dog. Kill other dog before orc. Kill orc. Kill sleeping dog. Loot. Profit.
Next 2-3 pulls...three mobs each. Trap one. It can be done...just involves a bit of finesse (if this is your static group for heroics, talk to your Hunter about respeccing SV and grind Steamvaults until you puke or he gets at least 2 pieces of the beast lord set. With a little practice, he'll be a double trapping hellion in no time). Better to discuss a respec and help them fill out some chewy lewt spots than drop someone altogether for an ez-mode CC class.
Next pull...2 orcs, 2 dogs. Trap orc. Sleep dog. Kill not sleepy dog, kill orc, kill trapped orc, kill sleepy dog. Loot.
Next pull...4-pull. 3 orc casters and stupid cranky orc in middle. Always kill cranky orc first or he gets double cranky when he sees his caster buddies eat dirt. Pull back...pull way back...have your hunter run up and drop a trap under one of the casters. If you're feeling squeamish, have the hunter put their pet on another of the casters but remember...you pulled back, yes? Don't have a hunter pet on a caster unless the caster been pulled back a fair bit or your hunter's pet is going to get violated by the dog calling guy and his two Destroyer lovers...and dogs...then they're going to turn on you. Pull. The casters. Back. Hunter pet on caster = dead hunter pet fast, but it's just a delay tactic...the hunter should not attack the caster or use mend pet...at all. The hunter does not want threat on the caster when the pet dies or the hunter will die next (or your healer). Pet. Only.
Kill cranky orc. Kill nearest caster. Kill next nearest caster. Kill last caster. Huzzah!
Next pull...the dog summoning orc and the pair of Destroyers...kill dog summoner first. Don't worry about spazzing out and zomfg kill before summon! Do it right...just kill him...if he summons the dogs and you wipe, so what? He's dead. Baibai doggies. The Destroyers are going to be dishing out some hurt. Try a frost trap to slow them off the pull. Try cyclone spam to shut them down a bit. Mortal Strike will make your healer blubber. It's bad, but it's an ugly pull so just do your best and get the dog summoning orc down.
By now this is pretty formulaic, ya? You'll never see more than 2 dogs in a pull so hibernate one of them. Win. There are only 2 pulls I can think of off the top of my head that involve more than 4 mobs....the channeler/caster guys at the top of the ramp after the first boss and the one pull on the platform between Omor and Nazran (which can actually be done as a 4-pull + single if you time it perfectly but this isn't about perfect, it's about win).
For the pull at the top of the ramp, use LoS. Use frost traps. Use your hunter's pet. Use whatever you need to use to mitigate as much incoming damage as you can until the orc and at least one caster are down and then you should be fine. Watch your healer.
Never ever not once ever EVER should your hunter be dropping their first trap right at the pull in a heroic dungeon. The pull is timed around the hunter's trap cooldown, and you cannot Richard around. You go when the hunter says you go or you wait for another trap drop/cooldown cycle. Everyone full mana with targets marked and clear strategy? Everyone best be ready for the pull or they risk botching the hunter's backup options in case their first trap is resisted. Hunter drops trap, waits on cooldown, you pull. Hunter's trap is still on the ground but timed properly, they can drop another one immediately after either a) their mob goes into the trap or b) the mob resists the first trap. It's a safety plan that works wonders but does not fit with groups where everyone thinks it's snack/smoke/**** time between each and every pull. Heroics = on your toes 'cause it's go-time.
Edited, Aug 28th 2008 4:24pm by AureliusSir
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I know who to ask on how to run a instance! That is freaking awesome!
AureliusSir wrote:
Never ever not once ever EVER should your hunter be dropping their first trap right at the pull in a heroic dungeon. The pull is timed around the hunter's trap cooldown, and you cannot Richard around. You go when the hunter says you go or you wait for another trap drop/cooldown cycle. Everyone full mana with targets marked and clear strategy? Everyone best be ready for the pull or they risk botching the hunter's backup options in case their first trap is resisted. Hunter drops trap, waits on cooldown, you pull. Hunter's trap is still on the ground but timed properly, they can drop another one immediately after either a) their mob goes into the trap or b) the mob resists the first trap. It's a safety plan that works wonders but does not fit with groups where everyone thinks it's snack/smoke/**** time between each and every pull. Heroics = on your toes 'cause it's go-time.
This is worth its weight in gold. I only wish my guild's hunters and tanks could read it.
For someone who has only played for 6 monts or so and is COMPLETELY new to heroics, the post by AureliusSir is probably the most useful thing I have EVER read on this site, and that is saying a LOT because I get tons of useful info on this site every day!
Thanks so much! I will be trying this over the weekend and hopefully will have some success to report! I know it still won't be "easy", but with the strategies outlined, I should at least be spending LESS TIME FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!
If I could rate you up beyond excellent I would Sir! I did click the rate-up button anyway even though it was already rated excellent. Should help tremendously.
Thanks so much! I will be trying this over the weekend and hopefully will have some success to report! I know it still won't be "easy", but with the strategies outlined, I should at least be spending LESS TIME FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!
If I could rate you up beyond excellent I would Sir! I did click the rate-up button anyway even though it was already rated excellent. Should help tremendously.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of Wisdom"-- Gandalf
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
Leodis wrote:
AureliusSir wrote:
Never ever not once ever EVER should your hunter be dropping their first trap right at the pull in a heroic dungeon. The pull is timed around the hunter's trap cooldown, and you cannot Richard around. You go when the hunter says you go or you wait for another trap drop/cooldown cycle. Everyone full mana with targets marked and clear strategy? Everyone best be ready for the pull or they risk botching the hunter's backup options in case their first trap is resisted. Hunter drops trap, waits on cooldown, you pull. Hunter's trap is still on the ground but timed properly, they can drop another one immediately after either a) their mob goes into the trap or b) the mob resists the first trap. It's a safety plan that works wonders but does not fit with groups where everyone thinks it's snack/smoke/**** time between each and every pull. Heroics = on your toes 'cause it's go-time.
This is worth its weight in gold. I only wish my guild's hunters and tanks could read it.
Well... they have an internet connection if they are playing WoW... is there ANY reason they CANT read it?
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of Wisdom"-- Gandalf
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
Heroics made me cry for honestly months when I first tried them...
Its a huge learning curve and your a new group. Lets face it people new to 70 have a hard time, chances are most didnt run pre-70 instances anyways.
Your best to continue taking it slow, always always use CC, your new healer will not be able to handle throwing the heals as they are not geared properly, looking at their gear, I can tell that they leveled to 70 shadow and re-speced to holy then.
Even though you see blue gear doesnt mean anything if it isnt for the right spec...
Also, your tank still has greens on him, not too much of a big deal, but when your healer is geared wrong/undergeared they wont be able to keep them up for 2 mobs let alone a full pull.
And your dps may be overgeared (although, im starting to think you dont know what overgeared for a heroic is, that boomkin is not overgeared in the slightest, he is where you guys should be before starting), but that just makes it harder on the tank at the end.
I think you should all back off, get rid of all of your greens, get gear that is specced properly, and give it a try... I dont think its possible for you to complete a heroic with a group in this state.
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 9:42am by lauisifer
Its a huge learning curve and your a new group. Lets face it people new to 70 have a hard time, chances are most didnt run pre-70 instances anyways.
Your best to continue taking it slow, always always use CC, your new healer will not be able to handle throwing the heals as they are not geared properly, looking at their gear, I can tell that they leveled to 70 shadow and re-speced to holy then.
Even though you see blue gear doesnt mean anything if it isnt for the right spec...
Also, your tank still has greens on him, not too much of a big deal, but when your healer is geared wrong/undergeared they wont be able to keep them up for 2 mobs let alone a full pull.
And your dps may be overgeared (although, im starting to think you dont know what overgeared for a heroic is, that boomkin is not overgeared in the slightest, he is where you guys should be before starting), but that just makes it harder on the tank at the end.
I think you should all back off, get rid of all of your greens, get gear that is specced properly, and give it a try... I dont think its possible for you to complete a heroic with a group in this state.
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 9:42am by lauisifer
Windystorm - 80 Disc Priest
Nebraska - 80 Frost DK
Rain - 80 Resto Shaman
Tropico - 80 Holy Paladin
Lauisifer - 80 Surv Hunter
Nebraska - 80 Frost DK
Rain - 80 Resto Shaman
Tropico - 80 Holy Paladin
Lauisifer - 80 Surv Hunter
Great f*cking post Aurelius. Forget what everyone else says about you, you sound like a stand up guy! lol j/k there, but really, above and beyond the call of duty. Rate up!
lauisifer wrote:
Heroics made me cry for honestly months when I first tried them...
Its a huge learning curve and your a new group. Lets face it people new to 70 have a hard time, chances are most didnt run pre-70 instances anyways.
Your best to continue taking it slow, always always use CC, your new healer will not be able to handle throwing the heals as they are not geared properly, looking at their gear, I can tell that they leveled to 70 shadow and re-speced to holy then.
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 9:42am by lauisifer
Its a huge learning curve and your a new group. Lets face it people new to 70 have a hard time, chances are most didnt run pre-70 instances anyways.
Your best to continue taking it slow, always always use CC, your new healer will not be able to handle throwing the heals as they are not geared properly, looking at their gear, I can tell that they leveled to 70 shadow and re-speced to holy then.
Edited, Aug 29th 2008 9:42am by lauisifer
I don't know if you checked the armory for my group super-recently, but our preist is in pretty much TOTALLY holy gear now with over +1100 bonus healing, and would be at about +1200 bonus healing with an enchant to his weapon... I have been told that +1200 should be fine to do the first heroic or two....
I think that with the strategies from AureliusSir's post, by planning well, taking it slow, and really executing properly, I am much more confident that we will be ok. I mean, if you look at the Paladin Forums, I (the tank) am not THAT far off from being able to do the first few Kara bosses according to Losie's tanking guide.
My plan is to try again with some more patience, planning, and every attempt at proper fight set-up and execution, so I will see how it goes this weekend! If I can get the first boss down, that will be a MAJOR milestone! The Boomkin has something like 9 purples... you do NOT need nine purples to START doing heroics....
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of Wisdom"-- Gandalf
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
Kavekk wrote:
I hate people that misuse literally like you do.
P.S. Get them to pull mobs out of Consecration and then CC them. Never tank more than two mobs with your gear level.
P.S. Get them to pull mobs out of Consecration and then CC them. Never tank more than two mobs with your gear level.
OK... Heroics just kill my toon! Literally!....
Nah.. doesn't have the same ring to it....
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of Wisdom"-- Gandalf
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
"I break stuff all of the time and STILL don't know what any of it is!"
Quote:
I mean, if you look at the Paladin Forums, I (the tank) am not THAT far off from being able to do the first few Kara bosses according to Losie's tanking guide.
Be cautious with this statement. The first half of Kara is easier than heroics.
Seriously though, at your levels, you will have a tough time, but you can do it. I think you are going on the right path. However, Ramps is not an easy heroic. It requires more skill and understanding of the pulls relative to most other heroics.
I would almost recommend going to Bot instead. Bot is a lot more forgiving. Straight up mob pulls, and no real pats.
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
i would recommend that you do it just once, to see what it's like, and then never do it again...
YJMark wrote:
The first half of Kara is easier than heroics.
This is a very true statment that a lot of people don't seem to understand.
Get into a few Kara runs. Even if they are not full clears, you can get some nice starter epics on the front half of Kara and like 6 badges. Should only take an hour or two depending on the group you're with.
Quote:
I don't know if you checked the armory for my group super-recently, but our preist is in pretty much TOTALLY holy gear now with over +1100 bonus healing, and would be at about +1200 bonus healing with an enchant to his weapon... I have been told that +1200 should be fine to do the first heroic or two....
Seriously your kidding me right? Im sure it was stated, "Yes your healer can do it at +1200 heals if the tank is well geared". Your tank is not, "well geared" for heroics. I know one thing, I could not heal ANY heroics until I hit around 1400+heals, which I managed to pug for all of my gear at that point. I did not use pvp gear either, only gear from instances.
My post was said on a personal level, personally I would not be stupid enough to attempt to heal a heroic with only 1200+ heals that is a MINIMUM, you do understand that? Actually on this note, I WAS stupid enough to try heroics with only 1200+heals and failed multiple times miserably at that. I was only giving you a heads up - If you dont like my advice than skip over it. Thats the point of the thread other people giving you advice for your group.
I know one thing that is 100% true - Heroics are very very tough on tanks and healers, if you dont have both at the point where they can over-excell than very likely you wont do well.
Also, I honestly believe kara is more forgiving than heroic groups.
Good luck, and since people dont like hearing advice from others even though they asked for it, please ignore my advice if you think im being outlandish. Thank you in advance.
Windystorm - 80 Disc Priest
Nebraska - 80 Frost DK
Rain - 80 Resto Shaman
Tropico - 80 Holy Paladin
Lauisifer - 80 Surv Hunter
Nebraska - 80 Frost DK
Rain - 80 Resto Shaman
Tropico - 80 Holy Paladin
Lauisifer - 80 Surv Hunter
As an aside, WoW wiki has some (largely arbitrary) ratings on heroics difficulties:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Heroics
It does seem the consensus is that Mech and UB are the easiest heroics, and my guild of allmost-entirely epics free 70's can do heroic mech repeatably.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Heroics
It does seem the consensus is that Mech and UB are the easiest heroics, and my guild of allmost-entirely epics free 70's can do heroic mech repeatably.
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