A reply to a private server test...Follow

Oblivious much?

All the kiddies who can't afford, or is too cheap, to pay $15 a month is using privately hosted servers to play on. Sure, it's not the same experience, but they're using Blizzard's software without paying Blizzard.

If you think that's okay then what the hell are you doing here?

Another argument I'll throw into this discussion;

Private servers host cheapskates who don't want to pay the daily fee? Isn't the daily fee used for keeping the servers up and providing GM support? And developing new software? These 3 things are exactly what you miss out most on a private server (the latter can be equalled out by the fact that half of the stuff [for example flying mounts] don't work on private servers). Ergo, you don't pay for something you no longer recieve. 'Nuff said.

The thing that bugs me here is that the chap was actually conducting a test in the interest of the whole WoW community, and you're yelling at him for saying he did it on a private server. Hadn't he mentioned that everybody would've embraced his research.

Terms of Use.



I colored the important part.

You can make comparisons to "real life" until you run out of posting space, but that rather short line takes all those comparisons and flushes them out in the toilet. Blizzard, the owner of the game, says that only they can host the game, so that's the end of it. That's why we don't like it. That's why doing it is frowned upon by the (majority of the) community here.

As I already mentioned, Blizzard probably doesn't lose a whole lot of money on it, but it's a matter of principles. And I don't understand what you mean with your question, have I ever used anything reverse engineered from something as complex as World of Warcraft? Honestly, I don't know.

The point here, though, is that they don't just reverse engineer it. They reverse engineer it, create a copy of the product, claim it as their own and then "sell" it to customers for nothing. To use your comparison to music theft, it would be the same as downloading a song, breaking it up into various pieces (music, vocals, etc.), putting it together again and then giving it away for free, claiming that it's your own remix. I'm pretty sure that's not legal.

So basically put, you don't like an activity because it's illegal. That's a bit of an odd reason... Most illegal things *are* illegal *because* people don't like it rather than the other way around. I mean, if they would make eating ice creams a crime, would you start hating it because you like your government?

I realize I'm somewhat being the devil's advocate, but I simply disagree with all the apperantly reasonless private server hate. Either you'll have to convince me otherwise with a good reason, be convinced by me, or get an admin to tell me to shut my mouth and lock the thread (even though that's not really of help to any of us).

One thing is using pirate software to play WOW, that just makes you a nasty stealer who should GTFO, GDIAF etc etc.

But using pirate software AND the live servers to play, makes you a nasty stealer and a moraleless Richard who should GTFO and GDIAF since you accept Blizzard's terms when loading the game after every patch! (And we all know Blizzard dont like nasty stealers!)

Then what is the exact reason? I can't exactly call setting up a private server 'stealing' if you've bought the game itself. It's just that (like I said a couple of posts up) you're not paying for services you're no longer recieving. While I'm really not a fan of private servers myself (I decided never to play on one right after launch, tried one for an hour lateron and immediatly figured my decision had been right), I simply don't see a reason to be so hateful against the phenomenon. Either there hasn't been one named yet or I'm somehow misunderstanding the part where people 'steal' software trough 'reverse engineering'.

I do recall that beta is doing what its meant to do, test stuff out. We know a lot of players who play bleeding edge content gets beta invites so they are there doing all sort of things so that they can give blizzard feedback.

one the things that can happen on a beta or PTR server even is that they would add npcs that sold Tier gear and respecs cost little to nothing. The players are then asked to go out there and test test test. Of course there are odd things happening like people just trying out gear and dueling outside shattrah, which is not really that productive. In case, anyone wants to complain that respeccing too costly, at 50g a pop you can get the gold back in a day's time unless you do not do dailies.

@OP: your reply needs moar aggro. Please take some flamepills.

Acknowledging it was my way of saying "Wow, you are a moron" without actually saying "Wow, you are a moron," as saying "Wow, you are a moron" tends to be considered rather poor forum form.

I was hoping you would be able to pick that up.

Trying to equivocate maintaining that private servers aren't the ultimate evil with stealing all my software is just.. I mean.. wow dude, seriously?




Edited, Aug 6th 2008 11:37pm by Groogle

As much as I'd love to believe you there, if you feel that cheating and stealing is sometimes acceptable, I have no idea where you might stand on lying.

The EULA mandates that you follow the ToU.


Reread my posts; I have never said anything similar to this.

I have said that if you are using the argument "It is wrong because it is against the EULA" then you are hypocritical if you curse in-game; this is true.

It occurred to me that what I meant may with what you quoted may not have been obvious to everyone. So, quote time, to elaborate on it further.



This is an excerpt from the opinion of the court in Blizzard v. MDY, the very recent Glider case that ruled that because Glider was in violation of WoW's ToU, it infringed upon Blizzard's copyright. It was a very controversial decision; it is not entirely clear if it will stand upon appeal. In simpler words, this decision says that actions that violate either Blizzard's EULA or ToU constitute copyright infringement.


This is a quote from section 2 of WoW's EULA. It's pretty self-explanatory; it means that any action that violates the ToU also violates the EULA.



This is an excerpt from section B of WoW's ToU, including only piece #1 of it. It states, in very clear language, that using offensive language in WoW violates the ToU.

Saying "damn" in-game violates the ToU. Violating the ToU constitutes de jure copyright infringement. Transitively, saying "damn" in-game constitutes copyright infringement.

Thus, if you are trying to maintain that private servers are bad because they violate the EULA, ToU, and/or constitute theft of intellectual property, and you cuss in-game, you are committing a hypocritical action. A player who says "damn" in-game is not only committing copyright infringement, but committing copyright infringement of the same sort that a player who has an active subscription to WoW but sometimes goofs around on a private server is. Hopefully, this has made my point with that more clear.

I am not saying that using a private server is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, however, if you are a WoW player with an active subscription who uses a private server sometimes, you are not committing any copyright infringement that someone who says "damn" in-game is not doing. Neither saying "damn" NOR using a private server impact my experience in WoW in any way shape or form; thus I have no problem with either one of them. RMT, hacking, and exploiting all three DO have the potential to directly impact my experience in WoW in a negative, sometimes significantly negative, way. Thus, I consider "damn" and private servering to be similar level of bad, so to speak. I do not consider either of them worthy of my scorn or anger -- I do consider hacking worthy of both, as it has the potential to actually impact my game.



Edited, Aug 7th 2008 12:45am by Groogle

That doesn't count as twisting your words around.

I assumed anyone who would consider violating the EULA to be spitting in the face of blizzard would consider violating the law to be spitting in the face of America -- and I figured most people would object to the latter more (or rather, at least most americans on the board. if you are not, substitute "america" with whatever country you happen to live in.) I think that's really a fairly reasonable assumption.

Few people would apply more stringent standards of morality to a game than RL.

Edited, Aug 7th 2008 12:59am by Groogle