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The etiquette of vanish...Follow
If my vanish is available and things have gone to ****, I usually do it. Might as well. However, I use vanish a lot in groups to keep aggro down or to re garrote. Also, just the tank dying doesn't always mean things have gone to ****. If the pulls are ok sometimes I'll pop evasion and shoot for the win, even if chances are its not going to work. If you have 6 mobs, dead tank and/or healer then that's a different story.
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
...death is imminent... pet's dead, pots used, bandages recovering, Gift gone, the only other remaining groupie is at 5%... feign death with the offer to attempt defibrillation.
...and this is why I'm so hesitant and slow at leveling a tank... depending on everyone else to be there 100% is kinda' scary to me.
...and this is why I'm so hesitant and slow at leveling a tank... depending on everyone else to be there 100% is kinda' scary to me.
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its a survival skill. i would hold nothing against a rogue who, in the situation you discribe, did just that. now if they vanish right after a pull or after the healer drops and does not try to help i might be a bit pissy after words but other then that meh.
survival is survival.
survival is survival.
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guardenome wrote:
Hi all,
I thought about posting this in the rogue forums, but I really wanted to get a broader view as this isn't a mechanics question. My question is how do you feel when an instance group wipes but the rogue saves himself with the vanish ability? Obviously if he (or she) is the last one standing, there's no issue and it's a smart move. But I've been in a number of situations where the healer and a dps dies, the tank's portrait is turning red, there are still 2 or 3 mobs at full health, and one of them turns towards me...in other words, a wipe is imminent (I'm assuming for sake of argument that everyone is in the same gear/level range). What would you consider to be good group behavior in that circumstance?
Personally, unless it's an absolutely awful pug or a group of good friends, I try to go down swinging as I think it's better for group morale. For the few gold in repairs it saves me, I'd rather not have other group members feel like I'm bailing on them...but I was wondered how the rest of you felt when you've encountered a similar situation? Thanks in advance for the input :-)
I thought about posting this in the rogue forums, but I really wanted to get a broader view as this isn't a mechanics question. My question is how do you feel when an instance group wipes but the rogue saves himself with the vanish ability? Obviously if he (or she) is the last one standing, there's no issue and it's a smart move. But I've been in a number of situations where the healer and a dps dies, the tank's portrait is turning red, there are still 2 or 3 mobs at full health, and one of them turns towards me...in other words, a wipe is imminent (I'm assuming for sake of argument that everyone is in the same gear/level range). What would you consider to be good group behavior in that circumstance?
Personally, unless it's an absolutely awful pug or a group of good friends, I try to go down swinging as I think it's better for group morale. For the few gold in repairs it saves me, I'd rather not have other group members feel like I'm bailing on them...but I was wondered how the rest of you felt when you've encountered a similar situation? Thanks in advance for the input :-)
Question #1: does the rogue have jumper cables?
Question #2: what will the repair costs be, and can the rogue afford to pay them?
Question #3: In a wipe, is the rest of the group going to take the angel or immediately return to the instance?
Question #4: How hard will it be for the rest of the group to rejoin the rogue if they return to the instance?
Vanish (and likewise, a hunter feigning death) is not necessarily abandoning the group. Logging out or quitting the group is.
--- Mike ---
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[wowsig]2577575[/wowsig]
Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm!
Aside from the deep and complex parts, WoW is not deep and complex. Jordster
There are only 2 types of goldsellers in these parts. Dead ones, and dead ones that don't know it yet... Dread Lörd Kaolian
Stop hanging out with morons. That's probably impossible though because there are tons of morons out there. Mentalfrog
[wowsig]2577575[/wowsig]
Teodoc wrote:
I'd rather have a rogue/mage/hunter avoiding repair bills then having them die with me and then whine about how their gear is red.
This. The better shape the group's gear is in the better your chances are of making it through the next potential wipe.
Well, I'm a tank and when I know sh*t is going downhill tooooo fast(I know by now), I'll tell people to start running and I'll just hold the angry mobs as long as I can. Ususally results in more pleasant time had by all, and a fairly quick rez for me when they return. Happened last night accually in heroic UB, I pulled the second boss AND THEN realized the healer was AFK. It was a guild run and we just laughed anyways, I ran back rezzed the healer(bear tanks FTW!!). He didn't even know it had happened until the others brought it up later in the run.
But, ummmm, don't pug, way funner to run with a group of friends anyways. And I like to see the rest of the group go down swingin on a close call/almost wipe. If you actually try and your group does not blow, good stuff can happen after the tank dies.
Edited, Jun 4th 2008 8:49am by weeedoggy
But, ummmm, don't pug, way funner to run with a group of friends anyways. And I like to see the rest of the group go down swingin on a close call/almost wipe. If you actually try and your group does not blow, good stuff can happen after the tank dies.
Edited, Jun 4th 2008 8:49am by weeedoggy
As a tank, I personnally do not care what *** saving ability you use if a wipe is imminent, but if you touch that button beforehand, either you go or I go.
On a wipe, if I see a mage/rogue/hunter still alive, I do not get angry, I just get a little jealous. I rolled a prot warrior, and I understand that I will go down everytime during a wipe, but I have no problem using every oh crap ability I have (shield wall, last stand, etc.) to make sure I do not go down easily.
On a wipe, if I see a mage/rogue/hunter still alive, I do not get angry, I just get a little jealous. I rolled a prot warrior, and I understand that I will go down everytime during a wipe, but I have no problem using every oh crap ability I have (shield wall, last stand, etc.) to make sure I do not go down easily.
Red meat is not bad for you.
Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.
calindc wrote:
As a tank, I personnally do not care what *** saving ability you use if a wipe is imminent, but if you touch that button beforehand, either you go or I go.
Justice was right... details do make the girls sweat.
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PsiChi the Fussy wrote:
calindc wrote:
As a tank, I personnally do not care what *** saving ability you use if a wipe is imminent, but if you touch that button beforehand, either you go or I go.
Only when they do not reenter combat.
Red meat is not bad for you.
Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.
1 post
Oh my.. it depends on the situation:
#1 never be afraid to vanish to reset aggro in a bad situation, then use it to your advantage.
1.a continue the attack in a last ditch effort with heavy opening attacks
1.b unstealth by slapping a bandage on the tank and go out swinging.
#2 If a total wipe is definitely unavoidable fight until the last possible moment to get the mob numbers down then vanish.
This saves a little on repairs, yes, but more importantly allows you to be ready for the fight faster than anyone else. If your using pots/scrolls that don't persist thru death, why waste those? My guildies don't mind at all and like the fact that one person is ready to protect them as they re-enter an instance and can keep an eye out for them. Normally they don't even ask if I'm ready before they start attacking again as they expect me to always be ready for new mayhem. LOL
#3 In a clear wipe situation and you are any class that can't drop out of combat, and become upset because others didn't die with you, especially in a situation where everyone would run out of the instance if the option was available... you need to settle down or rethink playing WoW.
#1 never be afraid to vanish to reset aggro in a bad situation, then use it to your advantage.
1.a continue the attack in a last ditch effort with heavy opening attacks
1.b unstealth by slapping a bandage on the tank and go out swinging.
#2 If a total wipe is definitely unavoidable fight until the last possible moment to get the mob numbers down then vanish.
This saves a little on repairs, yes, but more importantly allows you to be ready for the fight faster than anyone else. If your using pots/scrolls that don't persist thru death, why waste those? My guildies don't mind at all and like the fact that one person is ready to protect them as they re-enter an instance and can keep an eye out for them. Normally they don't even ask if I'm ready before they start attacking again as they expect me to always be ready for new mayhem. LOL
#3 In a clear wipe situation and you are any class that can't drop out of combat, and become upset because others didn't die with you, especially in a situation where everyone would run out of the instance if the option was available... you need to settle down or rethink playing WoW.
ZenJD wrote:
especially in a situation where everyone would run out of the instance if the option was available...
...for some reason hearing someone on Vent saying, "Well that wasn't good." followed by a chorus of "RUN, RUN, RUN, GET OUT OF THE INSTANCE" makes me
at which point after we're safe and I'm still laughing my hubby turns around and in his chair and 
at me which makes me . Not that a wipe is good, but some of my best memories in the game are the descriptions of how instance dirt tastes from my guildies while waiting to be revived, that or the healer lingering over that one person in the guild who punched one too many buttons with him that night. Good times.Sub
...my kids call me Mary Poppins.
Cry me a river, build a bridge over it... jump in and drown.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/SupremeTrollKing/subarcana.jpg
...my kids call me Mary Poppins.
Cry me a river, build a bridge over it... jump in and drown.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/SupremeTrollKing/subarcana.jpg
I'm a hunter. I typically fight things out until they look really bad, but every once in a while a fight will look pretty bad to me and I feign, only to find out that it's actually not so bad. If that happens, I get up and rejoin the fight.
Of course, I hate it when it's my reassessment that the fight is ok that's wrong, because then I die for no reason. (30 seconds can be a long time to wait for a cooldown in situations like that.)
Of course, I hate it when it's my reassessment that the fight is ok that's wrong, because then I die for no reason. (30 seconds can be a long time to wait for a cooldown in situations like that.)
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
Grasshoppah wrote:
bubspeed wrote:
Rogues are pussies anyway so your behavior is right on target (the vanishing part that is).
I lol'd my way to Sub-Default.
DarthGekko wrote:
If the Group is wiping, then it is acceptable to use aggro dropping abilities like feign death, fade, Invis, or Vanish. Saves ya money from not having to pay a repair bill.
(Is invisibility considered an aggro reducing ability? It bugs every time.)
(Is invisibility considered an aggro reducing ability? It bugs every time.)
it is, but it sucks.
It takes 5 seconds to full go invis (when invis you hit aggro of 0)
Any casting during this stops the process
Any damage taken during this stops the process.
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Having played a tank since nearly launch, there has never really been a time when I've been angry at a rogue for vanishing*. I'm usually more upset at myself since I feel like everyone's safety is MY job (even if it really isn't). Frankly I always figured one reason to stay fighting was to allow the DPS to get away if they can when a wipe is looming or to at least park their corpses somewhere easy to get to.
* Save for those asses who might vanish to go get a lichen or something during a fight. THIS is why I seldom pug and hug my guild daily.
* Save for those asses who might vanish to go get a lichen or something during a fight. THIS is why I seldom pug and hug my guild daily.
bubspeed wrote:
Rogues are pussies anyway so your behavior is right on target (the vanishing part that is).
Rogues are backstabbing, conniving bastards. Get it right, Pυssy.
I have less of a problem with the rogue who vanished than I have with the rogue who didn't vanish and can't be ***** to corpse run with the rest of us.
Kavekk wrote:
I must admit, I'm much nicer to people IRL. It's not that the internet makes me bold, it's just that in real life I can only kill people once, so there's no point in camping them afterwards.
If my group is gonna wipe, you're damn sure I'm vanishing, seeya in five minutes after the long run back.
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IM cool with a rogue/hunter vanish/feign death if the battle is done before it even started.
Lately I have notice since im healer most times, I get raped because of bad tanking and the second I die I tell the others vanish or feign death if there is no possible way of avoiding death.
At the point where the healer or tank fails the group it is not the fault of the rogue to pay a repair bill, the group already failed before the rogue could do his/her job.
I am finding more and more that If you dont like repair bills dont roll a healer or tank as these two classes are the most important in the group and they have no way to escape battle other than running.
Note I rolled another dps class (shadow priest) who is slowly becoming my main for two reasons: 1) clothies are cheaper to repair, and 2) my job is 10 x eaiser, I dont have to heal unless my healer goes down. And trust me I can heal with the best of them already. Its too bad that bad tanks have really screwed with my mind lately or another healer wouldnt have been lost to dps classes. :)
Lately I have notice since im healer most times, I get raped because of bad tanking and the second I die I tell the others vanish or feign death if there is no possible way of avoiding death.
At the point where the healer or tank fails the group it is not the fault of the rogue to pay a repair bill, the group already failed before the rogue could do his/her job.
I am finding more and more that If you dont like repair bills dont roll a healer or tank as these two classes are the most important in the group and they have no way to escape battle other than running.
Note I rolled another dps class (shadow priest) who is slowly becoming my main for two reasons: 1) clothies are cheaper to repair, and 2) my job is 10 x eaiser, I dont have to heal unless my healer goes down. And trust me I can heal with the best of them already. Its too bad that bad tanks have really screwed with my mind lately or another healer wouldnt have been lost to dps classes. :)
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DarthGekko wrote:
(Is invisibility considered an aggro reducing ability? It bugs every time.)
You can't use it after everyone is already dead and the mobs start after you. Once you cast, there's a 4 second period before you actually turn Invisible. If you do anything during that time, or if you are attacked, it cancels the effect.
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17 posts
I don't see the problem in using vanish. Like someone else said... if you pull and then vanish that's pretty crappy. I'd use the escape plans as a last second type of thing. I use Iceblock if I'm dying and everyone else is ok. But I don't pull and then use Ice Block, its just not good team work. ;)
As a tank myself I've never had a problem with Vanish that I can recall. FD on the other hand is another story. I can't count how many times a hunter has made a bad pull, only to FD and watch the group get wiped. This is usually exclusive to hunters since they're pulling from afar, increasing the chances of a problem. As of BC Blizz gave us warriors a nice surprise for the hunters who try to cheat themselves out of a full wipe. Intervene. I've done it twice now (same hunter) on a bad pull followed by a FD. As soon as I knew it was a lost cause and called for the "hug" I made sure to intervene the hunter on my way down.
thumperbs wrote:
FD on the other hand is another story. I can't count how many times a hunter has made a bad pull, only to FD and watch the group get wiped.
2 things - I never realized intervene worked like that! Hahahaha priceless.
The second is it's confirmed what I've suspected all along. Rogues are so much more interested in their stabbity than their survival.
(Now that you mention it, I have experienced and do agree that hunters are more likely to prematurely eject than rogues)
Kavekk wrote:
I must admit, I'm much nicer to people IRL. It's not that the internet makes me bold, it's just that in real life I can only kill people once, so there's no point in camping them afterwards.
My best friend IRL plays along side me as a rogue, hes 10x more likely to go rambo pop all his cooldowns/trinkets and see how many mobs he can finish solo before he dies than use vanish (and its surpising how far he can get in 5 mans especially with a healer alive). Partially because he always saves it (or has used it) for an aggro dump, and mainly because hes ******* mental.
I dont mind if people do use it when its an obvious wipe as its only the same as me finding a quiet corner to hellfire myself to death in before the mobs reach me. :)
I dont mind if people do use it when its an obvious wipe as its only the same as me finding a quiet corner to hellfire myself to death in before the mobs reach me. :)
During the 5-second countdown of Invisibility, the mage loses a bit of threat every second before going out of combat completely after the 5th second.
As for Invisibility/Feign Death/Vanish, I tend to always fight it out as far as I can, but if I know it's going to wipe from there, I use my escapes to avoid the repair bill.
As for Invisibility/Feign Death/Vanish, I tend to always fight it out as far as I can, but if I know it's going to wipe from there, I use my escapes to avoid the repair bill.
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