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#27 May 11 2008 at 2:05 AM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Quinz, the machine you linked isn't even close to as slim as the Air.

The Air at the largest part of the machine is still smaller than the smallest part of that machine.

0.76" vs 0.83".

The other two you linked are actually worse computers than a 17" MBP. One has a far worse processor (2.1 GHz vs 2.5 GHz), and the other not only has a slower processor, but a lower resolution screen. It's also an LCD screen vs an LED display, but meh.

Nice try.

What a shock, you get what you pay for an Apple computers are actually competitively priced?!


Yes-

And looking at the other machines you linked:

Processor :Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor T8300, 3MB L2 Cache, 2.4GHz, 800MHz FSB
Weight :3.4 Kg (with a standard battery)

Not the same.


Edited, May 11th 2008 6:08am by Jordster

Edited, May 11th 2008 6:09am by Jordster
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#28 May 11 2008 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Jordster the Quick wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Quinz, the machine you linked isn't even close to as slim as the Air.

The Air at the largest part of the machine is still smaller than the smallest part of that machine.

0.76" vs 0.83".

The other two you linked are actually worse computers than a 17" MBP. One has a far worse processor (2.1 GHz vs 2.5 GHz), and the other not only has a slower processor, but a lower resolution screen. It's also an LCD screen vs an LED display, but meh.

Nice try.

What a shock, you get what you pay for an Apple computers are actually competitively priced?!


Yes-

And looking at the other machines you linked:

Processor :Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor T8300, 3MB L2 Cache, 2.4GHz, 800MHz FSB
Weight :3.4 Kg (with a standard battery)

Not the same.


Edited, May 11th 2008 6:08am by Jordster

Edited, May 11th 2008 6:09am by Jordster

Have you physically seen the size difference between the mac air and the p300? Trust me it's minimal, it won't change how well you can transport it. And paying the same price for a computer with worse specs just isn't for me, but i suppose you guys like wasting money.

And the machines i linked jord, from a price point are far superior. 1500 dollars for a machine that can still be tweaked to be far better is way better then a starting mac book pro at a price point of 2000 dollars. the beginning mac books aren't 2.5 they are 2.4 ghz and 15 inches of screen If you hit the very high end one perhaps there's a chance that no one can rival it, but have you ever seen the preformance difference between 2.4 and 2.6? Not exactly worth 800 bucks more :P


Also little side note to theophanny, read all the specs before you comment, a 3000 dollar computer should be better then a 1600 dollar one. But in this case the low end and mid range mac books aren't even as good as a 1500 dollar lg. biggest thing is screen size, on top of the ram difference. But i suppose i'm just a mac hater.

Edited, May 11th 2008 12:15pm by Quinz
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#29labudism, Posted: May 11 2008 at 9:08 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) PC = Alliance.
#30 May 11 2008 at 9:22 AM Rating: Default
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Quinz wrote:
Jordster the Quick wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Quinz, the machine you linked isn't even close to as slim as the Air.

The Air at the largest part of the machine is still smaller than the smallest part of that machine.

0.76" vs 0.83".

The other two you linked are actually worse computers than a 17" MBP. One has a far worse processor (2.1 GHz vs 2.5 GHz), and the other not only has a slower processor, but a lower resolution screen. It's also an LCD screen vs an LED display, but meh.

Nice try.

What a shock, you get what you pay for an Apple computers are actually competitively priced?!


Yes-

And looking at the other machines you linked:

Processor :Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor T8300, 3MB L2 Cache, 2.4GHz, 800MHz FSB
Weight :3.4 Kg (with a standard battery)

Not the same.


Edited, May 11th 2008 6:08am by Jordster

Edited, May 11th 2008 6:09am by Jordster

Have you physically seen the size difference between the mac air and the p300? Trust me it's minimal, it won't change how well you can transport it. And paying the same price for a computer with worse specs just isn't for me, but i suppose you guys like wasting money.

And the machines i linked jord, from a price point are far superior. 1500 dollars for a machine that can still be tweaked to be far better is way better then a starting mac book pro at a price point of 2000 dollars. the beginning mac books aren't 2.5 they are 2.4 ghz and 15 inches of screen If you hit the very high end one perhaps there's a chance that no one can rival it, but have you ever seen the preformance difference between 2.4 and 2.6? Not exactly worth 800 bucks more :P


Also little side note to theophanny, read all the specs before you comment, a 3000 dollar computer should be better then a 1600 dollar one. But in this case the low end and mid range mac books aren't even as good as a 1500 dollar lg. biggest thing is screen size, on top of the ram difference. But i suppose i'm just a mac hater.

Edited, May 11th 2008 12:15pm by Quinz

You actually are a mac hater; I'm not saying macs are better than PCs, I'm saying they're comparable.

And yeah, I read the specs; they're inferior to the MBP.

What a shock, you get what you pay for!

BTW, the Air is actually quite different than the P300, especially in form factor.

Doubling in size isn't exactly "nearly the same".

Edited, May 11th 2008 10:23am by Theophany
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#31 May 11 2008 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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The p300 isn't double in size, it's thicker but not as long and wide, where is the mac air is flat and to me the mac air seemed really brittle, not to mention it has very few usb and other standard ports. Either way the air is a gimic and everyone knows it :p.

What honestly surprises me is the lack of hdmi ports on the new mac's, you would think that a computer that is designed for graphical and musical work would have a feature that would be stupidly easy to through in. /shrug.

At this point i'm going to agree to disagree, we've both said the same thing back and forth. Mac's are overrated imo, they are the starbucks of the computer world. Expensive, trendy, but not really the king of the world.

Edited, May 11th 2008 2:19pm by Quinz

Edited, May 11th 2008 2:20pm by Quinz
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#32 May 11 2008 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Back in the 90's, Mac was superior (forgetting cost).
This is 2008. Dollar for dollar, Mac fails..

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DYCWM90&s=dhs
Dell XPS 17"
$1999 (I would have gone cheaper, but that was the cheapest MacBookPro available)
Core2Duo 2.4Ghz, 800Mhz FSB, 3MB cache
Vista
2GB dual channel DDR2 SDRam @ 667 Mhz
Dvd burner
160 GB 7200 RPM HDD
Nvidia Geforce 8700M GT
No extra software, or any of that jazz. This was a prebuilt system, no customising.




http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=cart&mco=MTE2MjU
MacBook Pro 15"
$1999
2.4 Ghz Core2Duo (No additional information on FSB, or Cache. I guess Mac owners need not know trivial information such as this.)
We'll assume it's Leopard, again, such trivial information is not available to me on Mac's website.
2GB DDR2 SDRam @ 667 Mhz
200GB 5400 RPM HDD
DVD Burner
Trivial information such as Video Card are unavailable to me.


So, tell me, again, what makes the Mac better? Same price, crappier hard drive.
I have no clue what video card that Mac rig comes with, because Mac belittles its customers, have no clue on the specs of that processor, and it's a smaller screen.

Mac FTW amirite?

Edit: Upon spending much time researching in off the wall corners of the Mac website, I've found:
15" Notebooks use an Nvidia 8600M GT, 256 MB. the x6xx series are not great for gaming, they're the 'middle of the road' cards.
The Processor has a 3MB cache, so I'll ASSUME the FSB is equal with the Dell. It's probably the exact same processor. Of course, this is an assumption. Mac doesn't deign itself to give us mere mortals such information.

Edited, May 11th 2008 12:57pm by jaysgsl
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#33 May 11 2008 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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Just for giggles, to be more fair, I went through Dell and configured a 15.4" screen laptop. You know, because that REALLY wasn't fair.

For a dollar shy of the previous two laptops, here is what I got.

2.4Ghz Core2Duo (3MB Cache, 800MHZ, same as above)
Vista
15.4" Widescreen @ 1920x1280 *Didn't check above Dell resolution, but since mine is 1920x1200, I'll assume that one is too. The Mac runs at a max of 1440x900*
4GB DDR2 SDRam @667
250GB 7200 RPM HDD
DVD Burner
Nvidia 8600M GT (Couldn't choose a higher end Video card unfortunately. Makes me think the 8600 is an onboard with shared VRam)
Built in BlueTooth
Finger Print Reader
On Board Sound Blaster Audigy
As an added bonus, since I was a few dollars short of the MacBook's base price (after all the fancy upgrades such as the HDD)

Logitec G15 Backlit Gaming Keyboard
No extra software or any of that jazz, though it is a good time to note that XPS come with a THREE year in home warranty standard. Macs come with 90 day telephone, and 1 year limited ship out.

Again, tell me what makes Macs greater?

-----------------------------------------
Edit for even more giggles:
I decided to go with a top of the line MacBook Pro. The price came out to:
3347 or so. I can't look at tech specs and my cart on the same page for some beatnick reason.
17" Glossy display @ 1920x1200
2.6Ghz Core2 Duo with 6mb Cache @ 800 MHZ FSB (Pay a grand, get FSB information)
4GB SDRam @ 667
Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT (Still no good video card?) At least this one has DVI support, and 512MB GDDR3 RAM.
200GB 7200 RPM HDD (The most expensive was a 300 GB running at a WHOPPING 4200 RPM. WTF?)
DVD Burner
Upon reviewing, the price is 3399, not including any dongles, software, or accessories.

Let's look at a juiced out XPS, shall we? Price limit is 3400 dollars going into the build process.

I'll note that I wasn't happy with some of the hard drive choices, and decided to forgo 40Gb of HDD space for a nice productivity package. After all, we do more than play WoW on our laptops.

$3385
2.6 Ghz Core2 Duo, 6mb Cache @ 800 MHZ FSB
4GB SDRam @ 667
2x Nvidia Geforce 8700M GT in SLI Setup (*WOW* had no clue this was available on Laptops!)
160GB HDD@ 7200 RPM with fall sensor
Upgraded wireless card (4965 a/g/n)


Edited, May 11th 2008 1:29pm by jaysgsl
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#34 May 11 2008 at 11:11 AM Rating: Default
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jaysgsl wrote:
Mac doesn't deign itself to give us mere mortals such information.

They do if you actually look for tech specs.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html
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#35 May 11 2008 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
jaysgsl wrote:
Mac doesn't deign itself to give us mere mortals such information.

They do if you actually look for tech specs.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html


Most people just don't get it.

Hold a MBP in your hands. It's made out of brushed aluminum. It feels sturdy and well built.

Hold a Dell in your hand. It is made out of plastic. It feels like a brick.

Furthermore, as in the article I linked, Macs win when it comes to performance.

When you figure that the above poster found to be "superior" in the Dell was the larger hard drive, I just can't understand why people can't see that what Theo is saying is correct - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Want a bigger hard drive? Buy a Dell.

What a better computer that looks better, weighs less, comes with an operating system known for reliability (rather than the butt end of a million jokes) and performs faster even given similar components, get a Mac.


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#36 May 11 2008 at 12:43 PM Rating: Default
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Jordster the Quick wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
jaysgsl wrote:
Mac doesn't deign itself to give us mere mortals such information.

They do if you actually look for tech specs.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html


Most people just don't get it.

Hold a MBP in your hands. It's made out of brushed aluminum. It feels sturdy and well built.

Hold a Dell in your hand. It is made out of plastic. It feels like a brick.

Furthermore, as in the article I linked, Macs win when it comes to performance.

When you figure that the above poster found to be "superior" in the Dell was the larger hard drive, I just can't understand why people can't see that what Theo is saying is correct - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Want a bigger hard drive? Buy a Dell.

What a better computer that looks better, weighs less, comes with an operating system known for reliability (rather than the butt end of a million jokes) and performs faster even given similar components, get a pc and put linux on it.




FTFY ;) you don't even want to know how many **** ups i've experienced with mac's espeically the newest os. We had an apple rep come to futureshop and personally put oem copy's in the boxes so that they didn't have to ship us entirely new stock. they put maybe about 20 copies in, 6-7 came back as defective because the rep scratched the cd's upon insertion (big nasty ones that were the same on each one)

I'll give you the outwards design for sure. I'll admit they do look sharp, but at the end of the day looking sharp isn't what i want my pc to do, i want it to run windows without the help of bootcamp so i can game :p
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#37 May 11 2008 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't forget about the Mac's superior multimedia tools.
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#38 May 11 2008 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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rusttle wrote:
$5k in computer gear makes that woman an uber-geek. O_o

Just a little creepy though that her friend had some way of knowing whenever she was on line though.


not at all. the crooks probably had no clue that the owner had some application running in the background like ICQ, or AIM, or Y!, or some other type of network application that signs her on automatically.

from there it is easy. means the crooks were more then stupid but ignorant in the ways of computers.
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#39 May 11 2008 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
rusttle wrote:
$5k in computer gear makes that woman an uber-geek. O_o

It didn't say "computer gear" the article said "electronics" which could include a lot of different types of gear. $5K is on the low end for Audiophiles - they could spend that amount on speakers alone.


Nothing like playing Halo or COD4 and thinking a something actually exploded behind you and destroyed half your house. :D
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#40 May 11 2008 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Jordster the Quick wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
jaysgsl wrote:
Mac doesn't deign itself to give us mere mortals such information.

They do if you actually look for tech specs.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html


Most people just don't get it.

Hold a MBP in your hands. It's made out of brushed aluminum. It feels sturdy and well built.

Hold a Dell in your hand. It is made out of plastic. It feels like a brick.

Furthermore, as in the article I linked, Macs win when it comes to performance.

When you figure that the above poster found to be "superior" in the Dell was the larger hard drive, I just can't understand why people can't see that what Theo is saying is correct - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Want a bigger hard drive? Buy a Dell.

What a better computer that looks better, weighs less, comes with an operating system known for reliability (rather than the butt end of a million jokes) and performs faster even given similar components, get a Mac.



Time for some reading comprehension Jord.
The Dells have SMALLER, but FASTER Hard drives.
Faster = faster, last I checked.

Looks are subjective. IMO, Macbooks look like space age pieces of garbage. I like my computer to be sturdy, and look like a computer, not some ****** *** little teenage girl toy.

XP is a PROVEN system, and you'll note that the 'top end' Dell I showed was XP, NOT Vista.

As for feel, I've dropped my Dell, I've had stuff spilled on it, I've had hot ashes fall on it. The only visible damage is a couple of. . . I guess they're stains? Where the paint has changed colors slightly where I usually rest my hands.

When I first bought it, the graphics chip was heating up abnormally, but it was the 6800 GT Ultra, which was known as a faulty, crappy chip. They put in the newer line of 6800 GT Ultras, and it never heats higher than 70c now.
Other than that, through all the abuse, I've had no problems with it.

Just because it looks more 'plasticy' doesn't make it less durable. I can warp aluminum way worse than I can plastic. Plastic has better expansive properties, is actually more durable if built right, and is more receptive to damage. It's also cheaper to replace just in case.

As a car guy, I'd love to have a laptop made of Magnesium Alloy, but I know it would cost me a couple dozen in the grands, and wouldn't have the heat transfer capabilities that plastic and aluminum do.

Now, Theo, if you'll note, the FSB speed of the 2.4 is never listed on Mac's tech sheet. They only list the FSB of the 2.6 and 2.5. Granted, as I said, we can assume it's the EXACT same chip as in the Dell, but the fact that they hide the information from you is sad.

Show me again, how the Mac is better than the PC? Dollar to dollar, the PC comes out with better specs.
Let's not mention that if I want a super laptop, I can't buy a Mac. That was the hands down most expensive laptop I could make from Mac.
Of course it'll be around $4K for a super laptop, but I can actually GET one from Dell, Gateway, HP, Sony, what have you.

Mind you, I used Dell only because I have them bookmarked. I can come up with similar results from Toshiba, Sony, or any other PC company.

Edited, May 11th 2008 4:28pm by jaysgsl
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#41 May 12 2008 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Lets face it here: There are two victims:

1. The poor thieves who are so misinformed they thought a Mac was something they should steal

And

2. The women who spent money on a Mac.


Travesty... When is the carnage going to end?


Edited, May 13th 2008 1:34pm by Supei
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#42 May 12 2008 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
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Dell - "Intel Inside"
Apple - "Intel Inside"

Dell - Microsoft OS
Apple - Microsoft OS + Mac OS

I don't know about any of you but Mac sure sounds an awful lot like a PC to me these days. Ooooh Macs are so purty (and pretentious)!! As an IT guy, I despise hauling those Mac desktops around that seem to way just this side of a ton. Meh...
#43 May 12 2008 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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im gonna chime in with some experience of my own. at work we use macs, and we just bought some new mac minis. cost about 900 bucks for just the box.

intel core 2 duo, 2ghz, 2gb 667mhz ram. 64mb onboard vid card. leopard OS.

its crap. my old AMD 2400 ran as good/better than this thing and that computer was nearly 5 years old.

#44 May 13 2008 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Macs win because of the Mac Air song.

Now its stuck in your head for the rest of the day, too.
#45 May 13 2008 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I have about 15 computers in my house, 7 of which are macs who i can use just as easily. So really, you all fail, because I have 15 computers.


Yes, ALL OF YOU FAIL.


Fiften you say? Hmmm - this does raise a question...

WHY FFS?!

Oh, and this whole PC vs MAC thingy is getting very OT :)
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#46 May 13 2008 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
im gonna chime in with some experience of my own. at work we use macs, and we just bought some new mac minis. cost about 900 bucks for just the box.

intel core 2 duo, 2ghz, 2gb 667mhz ram. 64mb onboard vid card. leopard OS.

its crap. my old AMD 2400 ran as good/better than this thing and that computer was nearly 5 years old.



My '87 Corvette is faster than your 2008 Honda Civic!

(Okay. I don't own a Vette. But you see what I did there?)
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#47 May 13 2008 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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not really. a computer that cost about 900 dollars 5 years ago shouldnt be as good as a computer that costs 900 dollars today.
#48 May 13 2008 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
not really. a computer that cost about 900 dollars 5 years ago shouldnt be as good as a computer that costs 900 dollars today.


In a lot of ways, the Mini is better. For instance, you can pick it up with one hand and throw it across a room...
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#49 May 13 2008 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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i will agree with ya there ;)
#50 May 13 2008 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
i will agree with ya there ;)


I regret starting this thread :(

I have this debate almost as much as Japanese vs American cars and WoW vs FFXI and XBox vs PS.
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#51 May 13 2008 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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i really dont get too worked up about the mac vs pc discussion. My biggest problem with my Mac is running ******* office 08 on it. that program does not mesh well. I like the ease of connectivity with Macs, like just plug and play.

But i was dissapointed with how this computer performed when i first fired it up.

Also, when i started working here i got a brand spanking new eMac. when they first came out. That thing was a giant PoS as well.

maybe you cant get a good mac unless you spend a couple grand on it.
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