More AV changes for alliance........ RANTFollow

Actually the SP aid station can be ninja'd. It takes at least two people and some cunning to pull off but it can be done.

True but it takes you much longer to get into the base (stealth movement speed vs. epic mount movement speed).

On my alliance lock for example, I just rush right into the base, done this solo many times. Ignore the towers temporarily, head straight for the flag. Felhunter on a flag guard, 3-4 seeds of corruption, all drop, I grab the flag solo, takes 20 seconds.

If my lock were horde, I'd take quadruple the damage riding into the north bunker, I'd have to cap that first, kill every archer. Move to south bunker, guaranteed aggro on the elite outside. Cap the south bunker flag while keeping some elite chain feared, risk he aggros more NPC's. Kill another 5-6 archers, now finally I can go take aid station. I also have an elite I have to worry about, and up by the aid station theres not alot of places to fear him without pulling way more guards.

Plus all the alliance see "The DB North Bunker is under attack!". "The DB South Bunker is under attack!". They ride back on D, even if they die they still rez at the base, making capping that GY much harder to do.

Ideal situation is graveyards first, towers/bunkers second. Don't give defense a spot to rez 30 yards behind what you're trying to cap. Pretty obvious stuff.

Would you rather continue to have Horde repeatedly winning AV while the Alliance gets no honor, so much that the Alliance refuse to queue up? People are pissed at 45 minute queues Horde-side. Something has to be done to make it more fair. It has never seemed right in my opinion that the Horde get a free ticket to Stonehearth due to starting position and the Alliance have to settle for Snowfall. Something had to be done, and I applaud these changes.

Idk about hard numbers, but in my battlegroup(unless my luck sucks real hard), I would say alliance wins at least 70% of the times. The only times we win is with the super turtles, and who wants to play AV for 45mins+ for freaking like 400-500 honor.

That doesn't work for Alliance though. Well it does, but not as effective. With the Horde's head start to Stonehearth, Alliance tends to forgo FWGY to rush RH. Which is fine and dandy, until we have a flank of returning D behind us that makes holding the West & East FW Towers hard, and even holding RH if we don't establish a sound D around it right away. And because our backup tends to be Snowfall GY, Horde has usually capped Stormpike GY by this point. That means if we cap FWGY, they're spawns are significantly closer to their offense.

So whether we cap FWGY or not to keep the flanking D off our backs, it's more logical to leave FWGY uncapped so Horde is encouraged to stay on D and not bolster their offense. Every time we sucessfully rush to cap RH, we end up in a pissing match as to whether we should start Drek with Warmasters up, or wait for the towers to cap.

It's not necessarily that it's unbalanced through either side requiring different strategies to win. In fact it's better that way. But if Alliance starting cave was near mid-field as well (or Horde starting cave farther back), it would be an equal race to capping towers & downing Captains, which would balance the strategies required to win.

Regardless, I think like Alla said, it's going to turn into a Defensive HK festival post 2.4. Which isn't necessarily bad, but it means the probable death of quick AV matches, so no more 15-20 min runs for 300-500 honor. Which, IMO, sucks...while I invite more Honor, I would've liked to see it done without extending match times by 20-30 minutes.

Depends on if you include premade results, or gear level inbalances /shrug I'm sure the ratio is close to 50% on either side though even if you include everything. But only if you include every battlegroup and you balance it so that population on either side doesn't skew results etc

Maybe in your Group, but in mine, Alliance can't pull a win unless it's a premade.

from a blue post for anyone that cares to notice.

So not only are they changing the start location but making Bal more difficult to kill (because she will be more powerful).

My battlegroup horde loses most of the time (probably 65/35 or 70/30) as few horde stay back and play defense and do the whole 'rush the objectives' to finish a game (win or lose) in less than 15 minutes.

Now, if it becomes possible to get honor for all 600 kills then it could possibly be viable to turtle and get some great honor/hour, unfortunately, I can imagine both sides turtling inside their base and it turning into a WSG.

But how do these changes have anything to do with the IBGY choke point? If anything this will just cause more horde turtling, because you're giving alliance more of an advantage on the race battlegroups.

I'm seeing some people call the IB chokepoint BG's a scorched earth AV. Makes sense I guess. But alliance have a massive advantage in any sort of race for the reasons I mentioned (too many alliance NPCs, not enough horde etc..). Moving the cave farther back won't accomplish much at all.

The IBGY chokepoint is unfair for alliance, design of the bases is unfair for horde. Symetrical AV would solve issues for both parties, and there really wouldn't be much to complain over anymore.

I'd be all for a symetical map. But I don't think Blizzard wants that.



It's all about the IBGY choke point, how could it not be?

You see, not only his the IBGY choke point the strongest strategic point in the game right now, but since the Horde starts much closer it, it means:

- If they lose it, they're respawning incredibly close (compared to SH GY and SP GY), allowing them a shot at recapturing it.

- They can go past and beyond it. They can get to SH bunker before the alliance does. This has turned SH bunker into a free tower for Horde, which guarantee honor and gives them a lead in reinforcement.

If you make the distance between IB GY and their cave the same as the Alliance's cave in relation to SH GY, you remove those two advantage.

The Horde/Alliance will hit the field of strife at the same time and the Alliance will be able to defend SH bunker if they want to. If they lose it, it will be because they did not defend it, rather then because the Horde has it capped by the time you even get there.

Furthermore, if the Horde lose IB GY... they're going to have a much longer walk to take it back, making it harder to take back.

This change does not make IB GY easier to take - a handful of horde will still be able to hold back 2 time their number, Spartan style. They're still in perfect position to defend IB tower.

If the Horde plays well, it still has the best choke point in the game while the Alliance has the much harder to defend Stoneheart locations... The Horde still has an advantage when it comes to the mid field, but it is weakened.

What this change do, is make the Horde's position a lot less 'idiot proof' to defend. You can no longer both have a strong defense and get an early offensive advantage (grabbing SH Bunker) unless the Alliance lets you.

But the Horde will has an advantage, because IB is stronger then SH.



You're right.

But Blizzard doesn't want races. And races only happen when the horde let it happen. So don't.

I beleive you when you say this works in your BG. However in mine they just ignore ibgy. Just ride right past it with like 30 people and hit RH.

Seems to work quite well for them.



Yeah but its no where near 9/10 and changing rapidly as both sides evolve in their strategy.

To me, this is a bigger systemic problem than just AV. AV IS imbalanced toward the Alliance. Even with that, in many Battlegroups, the horde still wins.

Why? Because ON AVERAGE, the alliance sucks at PvP. This is the real problem.


Look at, for instance EotS, with it's mirrored sides. The horde consistently destroys the alliance in 9/10 games. Horde wins more AB, and slaughters allies in WSG.

The fact that AV is imbalanced is the only reason Allies have a chance. If they made AV mirrored sides, it'd just be more Horde farming allies for honor.

So perhaps a better question is how do you fix this first? What is it that makes people pick horde or alliance that correlates with these people being better at PvP? Is it the jobs that are popular among each faction? There is probably a correlation between race/job that is not balanced between factions, but what else? I know people have mentioned age, and perhaps this is also true, so how do you get younger people to play horde?