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L60s should know better than to go to BGs.Follow

#52 Feb 09 2007 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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This is Blizzard's fault, not the players'.

I definitely agree with this, and I also wholeheartedly agree that Blizz will not alter the current brackets because they want to sell the expansion.

I can understand your frustration, Jordster baby, but as I've said before: the BGs are a public place. If you want to avoid people who are low level, it's best to form your own group. I know this is difficult for battlegrounds such as AV, but it is possible (see: Scorn AVs).


EDIT: Oh my god, I got King of this Page for my bday! Yay!

Edited, Feb 9th 2007 4:42pm by Khrystalmyth
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#53 Feb 09 2007 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Theophany the Sly wrote:
PriestOfSouls, Eater of Souls wrote:
phabyo wrote:

If you're playing WSG or AB, you know alliance lose alot. If you play AV, you win alot. Don't blame other people because the lack of skill of your team. I'm quite sure there're other players better geared then you who think same way about you.

I am really sorry to sidetrack this thread(although it appears the dispute has been closed), but why is this statement true?
Dont get me wrong, im not questioning it, I agree with it 100%. But why? This has always puzzled me. How can alliance win 90% of AVs, and lose 90% of WSG and AB? I never have understood that.

For AV, it's a terrain imbalance. And before a bunch of Alliance zealots jump me, I have a 60 NE Hunter. I played AV for the Alliance for 5 months, and I've played AV for the past month for the Horde.

SP is the biggest bottleneck in any BG. The only way to circumvent it is by going above and around by the mine and hitting the GY from the back, but not enough Horde players know to do that.

Also, without a few good Rogues, the bridge into Dun Modr turns into a bridge of death. We can get pegged by arrows as far as 2/3 of the way across the bridge, while you have to be inside the Horde base to get shot. The fact that you can ride through the tower (lag a tiny bit and it's easy) at the base of the hill to Frostwolf Keep, and it provides you with cover from the archers makes getting into Frostwolf Keep easy.

AB, I don't know why Horde wins. Perhaps because we're not set on defending? I know all of the Alliance teams I was on were set on taking and holding 3 bases, versus Horde where we basically just take three and own people; we keep most of our players mobile so we can react quickly.

WSG is imbalanced because we don't have Retnoob Paladins. Most of our Paladins will spec Holy or Prot and thus can actually heal the FC or carry themselves. I think I've seen very very few teams on Alliance that actually have set healers for the FC, or a set FC at all. On Horde we leave carrying to Druids, Shamans, and sometimes Hunters/Rogues. Also we support the FC as much as possible (everyone converging on the FC to escort them), versus the Alliance trying to finish off the people that go after the FC.

A few tips for people playing WSG and supporting your FC, as I've carried the flag a bunch and I've seen good ways to do it and bad:

CC people. Don't kill them. If you try to kill them, you'r going to leave your FC still running for your base, as he doesn't wanna get caught out in midfield when they all rez and come back. Snaring Hunters, Rogues, Pallys, Shamans, Warriors etc will allow your FC to keep going with minimal fuss.


Ty Theophany, I actually understand what you explained, ty very much. That is something that has puzzled me for a long time, as I have no high lvl horde character to figure it out for myself.
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#54 Feb 09 2007 at 9:50 PM Rating: Default
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Warchief Jordster wrote:
Anobix wrote:

As for the money to buy the expansion... I can see the argument from both ways. If it is the only thing that keeps you happy and you cannot afford $40... than go ahead and play at lvl 60 til your heart is content. I just have to think though that if you have enough money to spend $40+ a month on a high speed internet connection, $300+/mo rent/morgage, $15/mo wow fees, +$xxx utilities + food, $50+/mo car gas, then it is possible to save up the $40 for the expansion pack. The only real exception I can see for this is if someone

a) is not allowed to get it
b) plays at an internet cafe who did not upgrade
c) is unable to get a copy (for whatever reason)
d) is so far below the poverty line, that honestly it may be better to not spend 20 hours a week and $15 a month to play a pay-to-play MMO and instead.


wow .. $300/mo for rent/mortgage? I mean I know you put a "+" next to it ... but where I'm from you can't get a single room in someone's basement for $300! I wish!

Anyway.

(a) If you're not allowed to get it, that is just a sad, sad case of parenting or an overcontrolling spouse.
(b) Internet cafes that serve WoW ALL upgraded ... They dont even need CD keys. It's essentially a free upgrade to them
(c) Direct Download now available... and EB/Gamestop is stocked
(d) Far below the poverty line and paying $15/mo for WoW and $200/mo for cigarettes but paycheck to paycheck living and payday loans wont allow for an extra $40 ... very ... very sad.

Anyway.

What I'm trying to say is that if you can afford to play WoW, and you're not 14 years old living by your parents stringent rules, then you can afford an expac. $40 isn't a lot - especially when it was known FOR OVER A YEAR that there would be an expac released in "late 2006" (which turned into early '07). The exact date was known so even if you live life by your parents rules, you could have saved some birthday money because EVERYONE had a birthday between the announcement of the expac and Jan 16, 2007.

If you are truly living below the poverty line and have dependents - YOU SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING WOW. Take that time and take some courses at a community college or something ... make something of your life. Playing a video game (badly I might add) with all your free time while your dependents are hungry is a low form of existence.



I 100% agree with you Jordster.

The 300/mo rent was referring to college town apartments/houses - cheap ones, but you can live in them. I was unaware of the free upgrades by internet cafes. And the other couple reasons are just the only other things I could possibly think of. I am in complete agreeance with you though about saving up or if you cannot afford to play a game like this then you should be spending the money on something else to better yourself.
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#55 Feb 10 2007 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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Although it was never my intention to end up in this situation (I just wanted to give examples of why people haven't got TBC, I didn't realise the extent of the polemical views about the matter), I now feel on the defence of unemployed people (I study and work). I can only give a microcosmic example, but the fact that there is one means there are plenty more. Hence why I cited that 7 million people play this game. That's more people than the population of Scotland! (The country that Braveheart's about if that helps: http://wikitravel.org/en/Scotland).

To start with, my friend did not buy his PC; it was a gift from his gf's brother, as was WoW. Secondly, he lives in a flat with 4 other people and receives housing benefit, so the British government pay his rent. Due to the fact that he lives with 4 other people he's paying about £4 a month for his line rental. His gf is disabled, so he doesn't work, he looks after her and plays WoW, as he can't afford to do anything else. British benefits are barely enough to feed yourself on and you certainly can't have a life.
Wikipedia wrote:
The amounts paid to individuals are typically modest, and may fall below the poverty line. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_(financial_aid)]

I also know this on a personal level as when I was unemployed all I did was eat beans and play Diablo II online, occasionally going for walks. This is why I got it together and am now in my final year of University working part time. But the fact is that, for whatever reason, some people don't or can't.

Simply saying 'get a job' is ignorant, small minded and bigoted. And this is from someone who's been there, done it, and got out. The world doesn't revolve around you or WoW.

Edit:Syntax


Edited, Feb 10th 2007 11:42am by Raverbasher
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#56 Feb 10 2007 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Raverbasher wrote:
Although it was never my intention to end up in this situation (I just wanted to give examples of why people haven't got TBC, I didn't realise the extent of the polemical views about the matter), I now feel on the defence of unemployed people (I study and work). I can only give a microcosmic example, but the fact that there is one means there are plenty more. Hence why I cited that 7 million people play this game. That's more people than the population of Scotland! (The country that Braveheart's about if that helps: http://wikitravel.org/en/Scotland).

To start with, my friend did not buy his PC; it was a gift from his gf's brother, as was WoW. Secondly, he lives in a flat with 4 other people and receives housing benefit, so the British government pay his rent. Due to the fact that he lives with 4 other people he's paying about £4 a month for his line rental. His gf is disabled, so he doesn't work, he looks after her and plays WoW, as he can't afford to do anything else. British benefits are barely enough to feed yourself on and you certainly can't have a life.
Wikipedia wrote:
The amounts paid to individuals are typically modest, and may fall below the poverty line. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_(financial_aid)]

I also know this on a personal level as when I was unemployed all I did was eat beans and play Diablo II online, occasionally going for walks. This is why I got it together and am now in my final year of University working part time. But the fact is that, for whatever reason, some people don't or can't.

Simply saying 'get a job' is ignorant, small minded and bigoted. And this is from someone who's been there, done it, and got out. The world doesn't revolve around you or WoW.


While it sucks your friend is in that situation, I have to wonder how disabled his GF really is. Does she require constant attention and needs his help for every little thing as going to the bathroom or eating? I wonder this as what a lot of people consider as disabled (at least in the US) is to where they are usually able to function in their daily lives, but cannot work until their injury or sickness is healed. But you mention you are in the UK so I don't know how people treat disability over there. Still, what about her parents and siblings? Why aren't they taking care of her instead of your friend?

Maybe it isn't right to say just get a job is ignorant, but telling people they shouldn't be playing the game if they can't afford the expansion isn't. You don't need to play games to live and if money is strapped to the point a one time investment equal to about $40 US is too much for you, then you need to stop playing a game that costs per much. It's called getting your priorities in order. It isn't the only thing your friend can do if he's taking care of his disabled GF. Libraries are great sources of free entertainment, especially the ones that let you borrow movies along with books. There is also TV that's free to watch or other sort of activities that don't require monthly fees. WoW may be the best entertainment he has, but in the situation he's in, it's the last thing he should be playing.

I too am unemployed at the moment, but I don't play WoW either. Back 6 months ago I stopped when I was finishing up my master's degree even though I knew I had the means to keep playing after school. My reasons were that the game would make me spend extra money that I really should be saving to get myself established and it would distract me from finding a job. I love the game and can't wait to get back and play with the friends I made in the game, but getting my feet on the ground was more important than logging into WoW every night. I know every minute I would be playing the game I could be spending looking for a better job or something that will improve my situation.


To respond directly to Jord's original post, I agree. Back when I was still playing, I never joined BGs until I was at least in the x7-x9 part of the bracket because I knew I wouldn't be able to hold my own and it really wouldn't be fun to me or others. But people usually don't care about what others want, they only care about 3 people: Me, Myself, and I. It sucks that because of their stubborness that they are gimping people over 60 in PvP, but what I really hope I never hear is their complaining because they are getting owned by 70s. People did the same in Battlefield 2 when they didn't buy the expansions and found out expansion owners could play against non expansion owners.
#57 Feb 10 2007 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, who cares? There are people without the expansion for whatever reason. Maybe they just haven't upgraded yet, maybe they are waiting for something, etc... If they pay the monthly fee and have a level 60 character they have every right to go into the BGs. I will admit, it is anoying, but I don't pay for their accounts, and I'm not going to tell them how to play. There's very little to do at 60 w/o BC... so you will find these people in BGs... this was blizzards fualt... poor design on their part... you can't blame the players...
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#58 Feb 10 2007 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Anyone who can afford a $15/mo game subscription CAN afford a $40 expansion. It isn't like it just came along one day ... Everyone knew the expansion was coming a YEAR before it was released. So, if you can save $3.25/mo, you can afford the expac!

Didn't save up? It's your fault.


The only reason i had the money to get Expac is because my friend got it for me. Most people never save up for anything, and NO not everyone can afford a $40 game even though they pay $13+ a month for it.
#59 Feb 11 2007 at 1:25 AM Rating: Decent
47 posts
while i do agree they should spend more time lvling and less time pvping, the brackets ARE x0-x9 not just x9 so they sorta have the right to go in there. i think its BLizz's fault in the first place for allowing people into BGs where other players are red or grey thats just stupid. dont get honor if the person is grey and cant do crap if the person is red.
#60 Feb 11 2007 at 2:56 AM Rating: Default
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171 posts
I agree with that the OP is saying, but people don't need to get the expansion to make winning easier for you. They spend their money the way they want. If you don't want to play with 60's then level to 70.... Or just leave the BG and wait for 15 minutes.

-suzuki
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#61 Feb 11 2007 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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agreed. omg AV with lvl 60s are terrible! They cant kill level 70s and the archers in the towers kill em before they even get close -_- I gave up on AV even tho I need 16 more marks ><
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#62 Feb 11 2007 at 9:45 AM Rating: Default
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Warchief Jordster wrote:

Others still say "I pay $15/mo and I can do what I want." If paying a monthly fee is your justification for bad play, you lack reasoning skills (or, perhaps you feel that paying money to do something is an excuse for mediocrity ...)

Edited, Feb 9th 2007 1:56am by Jordster


I think this is the end all answer to this whole thread, in my opinion. Yes, a BG full of 20's, 30's....60's make it very hard pull out the old W. However, they paid their fee and can do whatever they wish as long as it falls into the guidelines Blizzard has setup.

I totally understand where you are coming from here. But, the only thing you can do is Man-up and play harder to compensate the handicap. That or dont 60+ BG's. That a decission you have to make. Because those people are going to keep on running BG's and ******** at them only makes them want to stick with it even more.
#63 Feb 11 2007 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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WhentheWrldEnds wrote:
agreed. omg AV with lvl 60s are terrible! They cant kill level 70s and the archers in the towers kill em before they even get close -_- I gave up on AV even tho I need 16 more marks ><


I assume you mean level 61s. Level 60s are in the 51-60 bracket, and kill the archers there easily.
#64 Feb 11 2007 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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whats the point of this thread
#65 Feb 11 2007 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I seen alot of lvl 60's in BG's myself, with only a few 65+ including myself.
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#66 Feb 11 2007 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
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All I can think of is, if they can buy the expansion and level to 69 so that they don't offend folks' sensibilities and their absolute need to win, then those folks complaining can just as easily get that last level and go to the 70 bracket.

So... yeah. I don't see how anyone has any call to say what is or isn't acceptable. You want to stay in the 60-69 bracket, you accept that some of the folks in it aren't 69. Or even 68, maybe.

You don't like it? Quit complaining to the folks just looking to have some fun. Go yell at Blizzard. I'm sure they'll fix it if there's an actual problem with it.
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#67 Feb 11 2007 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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milconfive wrote:
Quote:
Anyone who can afford a $15/mo game subscription CAN afford a $40 expansion. It isn't like it just came along one day ... Everyone knew the expansion was coming a YEAR before it was released. So, if you can save $3.25/mo, you can afford the expac!

Didn't save up? It's your fault.


The only reason i had the money to get Expac is because my friend got it for me. Most people never save up for anything, and NO not everyone can afford a $40 game even though they pay $13+ a month for it.


Okay ... I know I'm going to get some shocked people rate me down for having the balls to say this---

IF YOU CANT' SAVE A DOLLAR YOU ARE RETARDED AND YOU'RE DOOMED TO A LIFE OF LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK IN POVERTY WHILE STARING AT YOUR TV BEING PROGRAMMED TO WANT MORE AND MORE THINGS YOU CANT AFFORD SO YOU GET GET A CREDIT CARD AND FIGURE THAT YOU CAN HAVE WHATEVER TV TOLD YOU TO WANT NOW YOU JUST HAVE TO PAY MINIMUM PAYMENTS AND THATS ONLY 40 DOLLARS A MONTH SO YOU DO IT AND NOW YOU HAVE ANOTHER 40 DOLLAR PAYMENT BUT NOW YOU CANT GET CIGARETTES ANY MORE SO ITS TIME FOR ANOTHER CREDIT CARD BUT OH WAIT I HAVE EVERY CARD THATS BEEN ADVERTISED TO ME WHAT DO I NEED TO DO NOW SO YOU GO TO THE BANK AND ASK THEM TO RAISE THE LIMIT BUT INSTEAD THEY TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE SPENDING 2X AS MUCH AS YOURE EARNING AND THEY WONT EXTEND A LARGER LOAN TO YOU SO NOW YOURE SCREWED ALL THE MEANWHILE YOU ARE STUCK AT LEVEL 60 IN WARCRAFT WHEN ALL YOUR FRIENDS ARE LEVEL 70 AND LIFE IS REALLY STARTING TO SUCK FOR YOU AND YOU WONDER WHY YOURE SO POOR AND YOU CANT HAVE THE SAME COOL THINGS THAT THE FAMOUS PEOPLE ON TV HAVE AND THE WORLD SEEMS TO BE CRASHING DOWN AND THEN THE NEXT DAY YOUR GRANDMOTHER DIES AND THAT MAKES YOU VERY SAD BUT SHE LEAVES YOU 25000 AND FOR ONE MINUTE YOU THINK ABOUT HOW THAT IS ENOUGH TO PAY OFF AT LEAST SIX OF YOUR CREDIT CARDS AND YOU ARE ABOUT TO DO IT WHEN YOU SEE AN AD FOR A NEW CAR ON TV AND THEN AN AD FOR CIGARETTES SO YOU GO TO THE STORE AND BUY CIGARETTES AND A NEW CAR AND THEN YOU HAVE A COUPLE THOUSAND LEFT OVER WHICH YOU FIGURE IS ENOUGH FOR AT LEAST ONE CREDIT CARD PAID OFF AND YOU ARE JUST ABOUT TO PAY IT BUT YOU STOP AT THE MALL AND WALK INTO A STORE WHERE YOU SEE A REALLY NICE THING THAT SOMEONE ON TV HAD AND YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE IT SO YOU BUY IT BUT THEN YOU REALIZE THAT YOU JUST SPEND 2000 AND YOU HAVE 3 DOLLARS LEFT IN YOUR BANK AND THEN YOU REALIZE THAT YOU TOTALLY FORGOT TO GET THE WARCRAFT EXPANSION BUT ITS STUPID ANYWAY HOW CAN THEY CHARGE YOU FOR A GAME THAT YOURE ALREADY PAYING FOR AND THEN THE NEXT DAY YOU GET A CALL FROM THE BANK SAYING THAT YOUVE MISSED A COUPLE OF PAYMENTS AND THEY ARE FORECLOSING ON YOUR CAR AND DUE TO THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE ABOUT 4000 SO YOU ONLY END UP GETTING 4 CREDIT CARDS PAID OFF AND NOW THE BANK IS CALLING YOU EVERY DAY AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO SO YOU SELL YOUR WOW ACCOUNT TO IGE FOR 100 DOLLARS AND GIVE IT TO THE BANK AND THEN YOU KILL YOURSELF.

Or, in a nutshell---

It's no ones fault if you're impulsive, impressionable and stupid. It's YOUR fault.

If you really can't swing $40, you can't swing $15/mo either. Sorry.
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