L60s should know better than to go to BGs.

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#27 Feb 09 2007 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent

Azuarc

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6,677 posts

Quote:

Anyone who can afford a $15/mo game subscription CAN afford a $40 expansion. It isn't like it just came along one day ... Everyone knew the expansion was coming a YEAR before it was released. So, if you can save $3.25/mo, you can afford the expac!

That's a horrible attitude. Some people are practically destitute, and their one bit of entertainment is through their internet connection and their MMO. I've actually known people who would deactivate their account after paying for it each month because they didn't want to be auto-billed after that if they didn't have the money for food.

While I can't say I've experienced this situation for much of my life, I was extremely strapped when I was in college; I had a connection in my dormitory, and a meal plan, but I had basically no money. My birthday's in October and the expansion came out right after Christmas, which means I'd need to squeeze in the money somewhere, but ironically the only way I'd be able to afford it would have been spending my spare time between my studies on working an extra job...at which point I wouldn't be able to play anyway. Considering I would have just paid for books at this time of year, no, I might not have the money laying around.

And that's to say nothing of the younger crowd who have no choice but to beg mom and dad.

Will MOST WoW players have TBC at some point? Yes, probably. Does that mean you can scoff at people for not having it? No.

If you can get past this reason, yes, it is unreasonable for level 60s to try to join a level 69 battleground...but that's where they go. Talk to Blizzard about this one.

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#29 Feb 09 2007 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent

Raverbasher

Sage

92 posts

Wow, nice attitude.

People barely above the poverty line trying to have some fun in life and you flip out because you're losing BGs. Maybe there is hope for humanity.

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#30 Feb 09 2007 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent

Kouren

Sage

1,598 posts

I agree with Azuarc one hundred percent, so I'll save you some trouble and won't bother restating everything.

This is Blizzard's fault, not the players'.

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#31 Feb 09 2007 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent

scudderfunk

199 posts

Come on guys. How many people do you know barely above the poverty line that spend money on a monthly game fee? Or an internet connection period. If you are that bad off that you have to chose between playing a game and eating, then get the xxxx with the program. Get rid of your internet and feed yourself. I SERIOUSLY doubt that anyone out there that is playing Wow has to choose between WOW and food. Or that they are so bad off that they cannot afford the xpac. Like was said before, it didnt pop onto store shelves overnight. They had plenty of time to recycle cans or whatever if they are that poor and serious about WoW. I'm sure there are many other reasons not to have TBC, but no ADULT can honestly say that they cant afford a one time $40 for an expac that was announced over a year ago. For those of you not willing to buy the expac, for whatever reason, dont even think about complaining. It's $40 measly dollars. Thats trivial with the cost of most entertainment these days. I can drop twice that in a night taking the g/f out to eat and to a movie. Does this mean I'm pappa mega-bucks? Of course it doesnt. $40 for all the enjoyment and entertainment that TBC brings was worth every last penny to me. Money is soo not an issue here. And if it is, find a new hobby you can afford. Call me dikc, see if I care. But to use money as an excuse not have TBC is absurd. Especially when you're already pay a monthly fee.

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#32 Feb 09 2007 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent

dashwoe

Scholar

461 posts

My original reply was cut off by the forums disappearing on my computer.

I can see Jordster's point of view and certainly I would not advocate anyone joing a BG while they are in lower end of each bracket as they will not be able to contribute in a meaningful manner. However if people pay their dues to Blizz, they can and will do what they like.

That said - and this has been a point of discussion on the Blizz forums, there is a disconnect when it comes to lvl60 PVP. WSG and AB are bracketed at 50-59 but AV is 51-60. Some of us are not going to buy the expansion - too many reasons to mention here, but are avid PVPers. We would also like to get to 60 to use the readily obtainable PVP epics but if that is the case we are to some degree limited to AV as for WSG and AB we will now be the smallest fish in a higher bracket. Plus some of the epics require WSG or AB tokens and if the player is not organized and aware of this they will have to enter to 60-69 BG. This is nonsense. Why can't Blizz normalize the BGs? make all BGs have a 50-60 bracket? They people with the expansion can advance and level up and be happy without old-timers who are not going dwon that route impinging on their team dynamics.

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#33 Feb 09 2007 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent

Unam

Scholar

218 posts

In my experience victory or loss in the battlegrounds has little to do with levels and way more to do with people knowing where they're supposed to be. Eye of the Storm is probably the exception to this because it's only about killing. The other three are about positioning.

Personally, I'd rather be in a battleground with people who are working hard to make themselves useful despite their disadvantages. I want to be on a team with people who are trying to beat guns with knives (in reference to the "bringing a knife to a gunfight" analogy). They're trying harder. When they finally get their guns, they're going to have a better understanding of how to use them.

I'll take knowledgeable, cooperative lvl 60's over any number of lvl 69's who fight over nothing in the wrong spot for the entirety of the game.

Edited, Feb 9th 2007 12:44pm by Unam

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#34 Feb 09 2007 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent

MentalFrog

Equal Opportunity Hater

19,369 posts

Wasn't Blizzard working on matching BGs according to gear? I think if anything this would solve the majority of the problem here. I do think they should put a lvl 60 only bracket on bgs.

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#35 Feb 09 2007 at 9:59 AM Rating: Default

ClockWerk

Scholar

292 posts

Quote:

I actually enjoy having a bunch of levels 60s in there.

I practically win the game by myself. I've got 10x better gear than most of the people in there.

It's really fun being able to own 4-5 level 60s at a time. Try to kill my flag carrier? Nope, I get to two shot everyone now like those tier 3 losers did to me pre-tbc :D

Ya, it's cheap, but it's fun. And if they don't want to pay for the expansion and level up, then they can keep getting destroyed by level 61+ players.

Edit: I don't mean to sound like a prick, it's just the truth. Blizzard will not rearrange things for the level 60s. Why? Because if they keep things like this, then all the level 60s will feel forced to buy TBC. That means more money. And as we all know, money is more important than making a quality game.

BTW, @ OP..

Your Alliance, shouldn't you be used to losing? :P

I hate when i have to waste time to log in just to rate some jerk down..

Meh.. back to work...

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#36 Feb 09 2007 at 10:07 AM Rating: Default

Archania

52 posts

Its very simple people: GET A JOB!
Don't care if its shoveling **** for a living.. make some dam money!
You can afford a Internet connection (either DSL or Cable). You can afford the game card. You can afford the Expansion.
Stop spending the money on smokes, drugs, etc.. you will find enough if you want to.
I pay child support(3 kids)/alimony, my rent and bills and still squeze enough money to play! Look around.. I'm sure there is something you can cut out!
Or should it be that we should all bow to you because you don't have money?

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#37 Feb 09 2007 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent

Theophany

Does it from behind...

13,048 posts

I'm sure that I'll get rated down for this, but meh, when have I cared about karma?

If you're playing an online game that has a monthly fee, paying for internet access, and paying for rent, I'm sure you can work in an extra $40 for the expansion. If not, your priorities are screwed up. I'd suggest getting out of the house and either going back to school to get a degree or getting a job. If you already have a job and you can't afford all of that, I'd suggest looking for a better job.

I'm a college student, and I work. Two jobs. Don't talk to me about not having time; I have a girlfriend as well. Granted, she plays WoW, but there's still that time investment to make sure our relationship sustains itself.

If it's that important that you play WoW and you can't afford the expansion, I'd seek professional help for your addiction. Smiley: grin

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#38 Feb 09 2007 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good

PriestOfSouls

Scholar

514 posts

phabyo wrote:

If you're playing WSG or AB, you know alliance lose alot. If you play AV, you win alot. Don't blame other people because the lack of skill of your team. I'm quite sure there're other players better geared then you who think same way about you.

I am really sorry to sidetrack this thread(although it appears the dispute has been closed), but why is this statement true?
Dont get me wrong, im not questioning it, I agree with it 100%. But why? This has always puzzled me. How can alliance win 90% of AVs, and lose 90% of WSG and AB? I never have understood that.

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#39 Feb 09 2007 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent

Magilsoro

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1,297 posts

If you are poor, you shouldn't be paying for an MMO, internet, computer, etc..

If you can't stand losing because Blizzard made those brackets for those level ranges, then theres nothing you can do. That's the rules, it's written and that's how it is. I can't stand playing at the lowest level in a BG, it makes it not very fun experiencefor me. But for others, it's obviously fun. Blizzard made the rules, now you gotta live with it, or stop doing BG's to get away from it...or, just roll horde Jord, you know you wanna^^

By: Magilsoro

455 posts
Score: Default

Oh no! The rate down police are on the prowl! RAWR! *laughs* ...losers

Edited, Feb 9th 2007 2:03pm by Magilsoro

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#40 Feb 09 2007 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good

Theophany

Does it from behind...

13,048 posts

PriestOfSouls, Eater of Souls wrote:

phabyo wrote:

If you're playing WSG or AB, you know alliance lose alot. If you play AV, you win alot. Don't blame other people because the lack of skill of your team. I'm quite sure there're other players better geared then you who think same way about you.

I am really sorry to sidetrack this thread(although it appears the dispute has been closed), but why is this statement true?
Dont get me wrong, im not questioning it, I agree with it 100%. But why? This has always puzzled me. How can alliance win 90% of AVs, and lose 90% of WSG and AB? I never have understood that.

For AV, it's a terrain imbalance. And before a bunch of Alliance zealots jump me, I have a 60 NE Hunter. I played AV for the Alliance for 5 months, and I've played AV for the past month for the Horde.

SP is the biggest bottleneck in any BG. The only way to circumvent it is by going above and around by the mine and hitting the GY from the back, but not enough Horde players know to do that.

Also, without a few good Rogues, the bridge into Dun Modr turns into a bridge of death. We can get pegged by arrows as far as 2/3 of the way across the bridge, while you have to be inside the Horde base to get shot. The fact that you can ride through the tower (lag a tiny bit and it's easy) at the base of the hill to Frostwolf Keep, and it provides you with cover from the archers makes getting into Frostwolf Keep easy.

AB, I don't know why Horde wins. Perhaps because we're not set on defending? I know all of the Alliance teams I was on were set on taking and holding 3 bases, versus Horde where we basically just take three and own people; we keep most of our players mobile so we can react quickly.

WSG is imbalanced because we don't have Retnoob Paladins. Most of our Paladins will spec Holy or Prot and thus can actually heal the FC or carry themselves. I think I've seen very very few teams on Alliance that actually have set healers for the FC, or a set FC at all. On Horde we leave carrying to Druids, Shamans, and sometimes Hunters/Rogues. Also we support the FC as much as possible (everyone converging on the FC to escort them), versus the Alliance trying to finish off the people that go after the FC.

A few tips for people playing WSG and supporting your FC, as I've carried the flag a bunch and I've seen good ways to do it and bad:

CC people. Don't kill them. If you try to kill them, you'r going to leave your FC still running for your base, as he doesn't wanna get caught out in midfield when they all rez and come back. Snaring Hunters, Rogues, Pallys, Shamans, Warriors etc will allow your FC to keep going with minimal fuss.

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#43 Feb 09 2007 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent

Theophany

Does it from behind...

13,048 posts

Wow, someone's on a karma trolling spree. My explanation of why BGs are the way they are got rated down? GG trying to knock my off of Scholar; I've got 1600+ posts of Scholarly karma to get rid of. Smiley: tongue

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#44 Feb 09 2007 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent

ClockWerk

Scholar

292 posts

Quote:

For AV, it's a terrain imbalance. And before a bunch of Alliance zealots jump me, I have a 60 NE Hunter. I played AV for the Alliance for 5 months, and I've played AV for the past month for the Horde.

SP is the biggest bottleneck in any BG. The only way to circumvent it is by going above and around by the mine and hitting the GY from the back, but not enough Horde players know to do that.

Also, without a few good Rogues, the bridge into Dun Modr turns into a bridge of death. We can get pegged by arrows as far as 2/3 of the way across the bridge, while you have to be inside the Horde base to get shot. The fact that you can ride through the tower (lag a tiny bit and it's easy) at the base of the hill to Frostwolf Keep, and it provides you with cover from the archers makes getting into Frostwolf Keep easy.

AB, I don't know why Horde wins. Perhaps because we're not set on defending? I know all of the Alliance teams I was on were set on taking and holding 3 bases, versus Horde where we basically just take three and own people; we keep most of our players mobile so we can react quickly.

WSG is imbalanced because we don't have Retnoob Paladins. Most of our Paladins will spec Holy or Prot and thus can actually heal the FC or carry themselves. I think I've seen very very few teams on Alliance that actually have set healers for the FC, or a set FC at all. On Horde we leave carrying to Druids, Shamans, and sometimes Hunters/Rogues. Also we support the FC as much as possible (everyone converging on the FC to escort them), versus the Alliance trying to finish off the people that go after the FC.

A few tips for people playing WSG and supporting your FC, as I've carried the flag a bunch and I've seen good ways to do it and bad:

CC people. Don't kill them. If you try to kill them, you'r going to leave your FC still running for your base, as he doesn't wanna get caught out in midfield when they all rez and come back. Snaring Hunters, Rogues, Pallys, Shamans, Warriors etc will allow your FC to keep going with minimal fuss.

I agree with most of this post as to why BG play out the way they do.

The part about AB most of all.I have spent countless games in AB trying to tell other players you cant count on holding 3 nodes the whole game.more often than not this is the exact reson alliance loses AB.. I rate this post up..

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#45 Feb 09 2007 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent

Anobix

View User Forum

Sage

8,272 posts

As for the OP:

As others have said, it is a deal with Blizzard not with the players' to play in the bracket.

As for the money to buy the expansion... I can see the argument from both ways. If it is the only thing that keeps you happy and you cannot afford $40... than go ahead and play at lvl 60 til your heart is content. I just have to think though that if you have enough money to spend $40+ a month on a high speed internet connection, $300+/mo rent/morgage, $15/mo wow fees, +$xxx utilities + food, $50+/mo car gas, then it is possible to save up the $40 for the expansion pack. The only real exception I can see for this is if someone

a) is not allowed to get it
b) plays at an internet cafe who did not upgrade
c) is unable to get a copy (for whatever reason)
d) is so far below the poverty line, that honestly it may be better to not spend 20 hours a week and $15 a month to play a pay-to-play MMO and instead.

I am a college student, I pay more almost all of my expenses, and have a job. I am lucky enough to be here and have good money saving skills that I do not need to worry about dropping $40/$50 on the fly, but I can understand that some people are not as fortunate as I am, or are just unable to do so.

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#46 Feb 09 2007 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good

Caedicus

Scholar

44 posts

I think Blizzard made AB and WSG have a 60-69 level bracket as another way to "strongly encourage" (really hard not to use the word "force" here) people who don't have the xpac to go out and by it. Blizzard is a business and as business they are always trying to maximize their profits. So the fact that they did this is not surprising. It's still pretty lame, kinda. Even though, if you can afford a computer + a monthly fee for internet and WoW, buying the Xpac shouldn't be a problem.

To the OP. You do realize that over time you are going to see the same percentage of level 60's also playing for the horde as well, right? I'm just saying just because there are 60's on your teams doesn't mean that it's going to be an instant loss. I had to grind out some AB at WSG at 60 because I needed an epic mount and getting a pvp mount was just the fastest for me at the time. Plus I wanted a cute little war puppy! Anyways, we won most of our AB's and about half of our WSG, so it wasn't like I was making my team lose.

Either way, people are going to do in game what they think is fun. Most level 60's won't keep playing because they'll get bored of getting raped. And you know, at a 60 rogue. I wasn't THAT worthless. My DPS was crap but I could still stun people which is probably more important than DPS.

Edited, Feb 9th 2007 2:45pm by Caedicus

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#47 Feb 09 2007 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent

emmitsvenson

Sage

1,574 posts

Back to the original topic...

60 is still top of the bracket for AV. If you're 60, do Alterac Valley. I did, until killing an archer put me up to 61. Now I plan to do Outlands quests until I'm 68 or so for Eye of the Storm

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#48 Feb 09 2007 at 12:55 PM Rating: Default

Jordster

Plays better than you

11,852 posts

Anobix wrote:

As for the money to buy the expansion... I can see the argument from both ways. If it is the only thing that keeps you happy and you cannot afford $40... than go ahead and play at lvl 60 til your heart is content. I just have to think though that if you have enough money to spend $40+ a month on a high speed internet connection, $300+/mo rent/morgage, $15/mo wow fees, +$xxx utilities + food, $50+/mo car gas, then it is possible to save up the $40 for the expansion pack. The only real exception I can see for this is if someone

a) is not allowed to get it
b) plays at an internet cafe who did not upgrade
c) is unable to get a copy (for whatever reason)
d) is so far below the poverty line, that honestly it may be better to not spend 20 hours a week and $15 a month to play a pay-to-play MMO and instead.

wow .. $300/mo for rent/mortgage? I mean I know you put a "+" next to it ... but where I'm from you can't get a single room in someone's basement for $300! I wish!

Anyway.

(a) If you're not allowed to get it, that is just a sad, sad case of parenting or an overcontrolling spouse.
(b) Internet cafes that serve WoW ALL upgraded ... They dont even need CD keys. It's essentially a free upgrade to them
(c) Direct Download now available... and EB/Gamestop is stocked
(d) Far below the poverty line and paying $15/mo for WoW and $200/mo for cigarettes but paycheck to paycheck living and payday loans wont allow for an extra $40 ... very ... very sad.

Anyway.

What I'm trying to say is that if you can afford to play WoW, and you're not 14 years old living by your parents stringent rules, then you can afford an expac. $40 isn't a lot - especially when it was known FOR OVER A YEAR that there would be an expac released in "late 2006" (which turned into early '07). The exact date was known so even if you live life by your parents rules, you could have saved some birthday money because EVERYONE had a birthday between the announcement of the expac and Jan 16, 2007.

If you are truly living below the poverty line and have dependents - YOU SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING WOW. Take that time and take some courses at a community college or something ... make something of your life. Playing a video game (badly I might add) with all your free time while your dependents are hungry is a low form of existence.

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#49 Feb 09 2007 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent

Magilsoro

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1,297 posts

But here's the thing Jord, while I do agree with bring the most to the BG as you can possibly bring... they don't have to. Blizzard seems to think a bsttleground with a level 60 and a level 69 is a good idea. However, we can see that it is not.

While we have cross server BG's now, they really should split the level groups.

10-14
15-19
20-24
25-29
etc...

It makes it more enjoyable and challenging for each level. I don't have to level just so I can enjoy myself in a BG to the later levels within that bracket. And one less excuse why the allies are sucking in BG's =p

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#50 Feb 09 2007 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent

Azatodeth

876 posts

Why do all or almost all alliance tend to think/say that they are so sick of losing because of the incompetence, gear or level of their team-mates ???

It's not once, not twice, it is being repeated all over, you all lose and you all blame it on the next guy ! laughable.

When I lose a BG I usually see it coming, I can usually slow down the loss at least enough to be able to realize what is going on and make a balance, and one of the first things I think is: has part of the defeat been due to me ? if so, how ? what have I done wrong ?

AFTER I think about that THEN I will seek the responsability for the defeat upon my companions. It could be because a bunch of HK homing idiots did little good for the team, I will try to remember their names, and insist that they work for the team. Or maybe the problem is that we had a bunch of low levels and most of the enemy team was more powerful and constantly crushed our weak sides, if I see another low level I'll tell him if he could come when he becomes more powerful he would surely have much more fun and do a much better job kicking alliance ***.

Either way, I'm not going to cry about it, even if I get a bit pissed by someone deliberately ignoring me or answering ruedly, I'll try try to avoid it from getting all over my head and if worst comes to worst go do something more productive.

Yeah, just wanted to share that with you, maybe it'll help someone somehow.

P.S: Just after TBC hit I tried to do a BG at 60, there were already level 63's and such running around, there I decided it was definitely a good idea to level up again when a feral druid not only survived my inital onslaught but charged me in bear form and broke my 70-80% life left before the stun wore off. Getting pwned easily is absolutely no fun.

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#51 Feb 09 2007 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent

Reednut

Scholar

839 posts

IMHO the original post makes a valid point. I'm sure there are some few people who don't know any better, but most should have a clue after one match. Seriously, why grind through BG's while getting owned and losing when you can go level up and get better gear. I have not even stepped into a BG since the expac hit. My wife played one or two AV's, but the population was really sparse. That GM weapon may be great, even at level 70, but is it really worth grinding through countless days of ownage? I think not.

As for all the reasons why people (with level 60's) would not have purchased the expansion, I have serious doubts about most being hardship cases. I suspect that those who don't have TBC are mostly children whose gaming is supported by their parents. Seriously, if you can afford the subscription and the high speed internet, you can afford the game given a year to save.

Theophany wrote:

For AV, it's a terrain imbalance. And before a bunch of Alliance zealots jump me, I have a 60 NE Hunter. I played AV for the Alliance for 5 months, and I've played AV for the past month for the Horde.

SP is the biggest bottleneck in any BG. The only way to circumvent it is by going above and around by the mine and hitting the GY from the back, but not enough Horde players know to do that.

I won't jump you, but the imbalance is more percieved than real. As you have stated, the problem is more that Horde needs to know how to use the terrain. I was in AV's where a small group of alliance held off the entire horde attack at SP for half an hour. I was in others where we got squashed from three side and lost SP in minutes. (Attacks came from the mine road, the main road, and under the bridge) The bridge of death can work both ways. It is harder to take, but easier to defend once taken. The Horde can also lock down IB with minimal effort since there is only one way in. IMHO AV is balanced, or perhaps only very slightly shifted in favor of the Alliance. (The Horde NPC's can be more easily avoided)

Finally, what is going on with the ratings in this thread. Is there really a need to rate people for having a different opinion. Sheesh!

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L60s should know better than to go to BGs.Follow