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For the love of Azeroth - NERF WARLOCKSFollow

#152 Dec 29 2006 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Grandmother baelnic wrote:
No, it's Felhunter. Not Felguard.


False facts are always handy to bolster an arguement.

Edited, Dec 29th 2006 3:11pm by Molarean
#153 Dec 29 2006 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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I loved when they added damage charts to the BG summary board and warlocks were listed as doing twice as much damage as the rest of the group in most cases. Then I thought I would go on a little crusade and I found out that Boomkin druids are awesome anti-warlock machines.

Between HoTs, fear breaking PvP trinket, remove curse, etc, I can root their pets and trash them more often than not.

The thing that gives me the greatest pleasure though is fragging a pally before he has a chance to bubble.

Sanvyn had it right in the first response, you just need a few teammates that know how to work together.
#154 Dec 29 2006 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Probably meant to type Felhunter instead of Felguard. Have made same mistake before.
Paranoia was ofcourse already in the game before Felguard came and Jord would know this.

V. nice post Iddigory. ^^
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#155 Dec 29 2006 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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Grandmother baelnic wrote:
Quote:
W/ a Felguard out they get Paranoia which I am pretty sure IS a stealth detection buff so my point about them detecting stealth is still on the table, just not as strongly as I had thought.


No, it's Felhunter. Not Felguard.


Opps that's what I meant ... the doggie
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#156 Dec 29 2006 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Molarean wrote:
Grandmother baelnic wrote:
No, it's Felhunter. Not Felguard.


False facts are always handy to bolster an arguement.

Edited, Dec 29th 2006 3:11pm by Molarean


Wow ... just wow... like anyone couldn't have mistyped that.

GTFO if all you have is pointless retort. Thanks.

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#157 Dec 29 2006 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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I know you mistyped it Jord.

I think Warlocks are a tough nut to balance personally and that's why I think they are either underpowered or overpowered.

My only point of my point was that if they have a Felguard out they don't have a Felhunter out. I think the new Kill numbers on WoW.com show that Felguard > Voidwalker > Felhunter = Succie > Imp.

Doesn't look like Rogues are getting detected nearly as much now a days.
#158 Dec 29 2006 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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It's easy getting those two mixed up in conversation.
#159 Dec 29 2006 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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Shmii, Defender of Justice wrote:
Probably meant to type Felhunter instead of Felguard. Have made same mistake before.
Paranoia was ofcourse already in the game before Felguard came and Jord would know this.


He probably just said Felguard cause that's the pet everyone's pissed off about right now... ;)
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#160 Dec 29 2006 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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Jordster wrote:
Wow ... just wow... like anyone couldn't have mistyped that.

GTFO if all you have is pointless retort. Thanks.


Coming from someone who wants to screen posters in his thread.
#162 Dec 29 2006 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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If nothing else, I think Warlock spells - hell, all offensive spells - should wear off when the caster dies. That's just plain common sense.

My two. As though nobody else has said it yet :P
#163 Dec 29 2006 at 4:50 PM Rating: Default
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Molarean wrote:
Jordster wrote:
Wow ... just wow... like anyone couldn't have mistyped that.

GTFO if all you have is pointless retort. Thanks.


Coming from someone who wants to screen posters in his thread.


More pointless retort lacking any sense of input on the discussion.

Thanks.
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#164 Dec 29 2006 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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It is funny that people want to nerf a 41 point talent that hurts them but won't even consider having the same thing happen to beneficial effects that have a small fraction, at best, of those talent points invested in them.
#165 Dec 29 2006 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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Jordster wrote:
More pointless retort lacking any sense of input on the discussion.

Thanks.


Just following your lead.
#166 Dec 29 2006 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Who made up the word "nerf" anyway? It sounds so stupid. Like some sort of kid's football or something. Or something Pinkie would say (remember him kids? Pinkie and the Brain).


Imagine you're walking around, slaying monsters with your +1 Sword of Slaying (of Monsters). You're having a wonderful time poking things and watching them fall over.

Now along comes a patch and oops! Your shiny sword is gone! All you have left is this Nerf* sword... and there's two monsters who've got an eye on handing you a well-deserved beating. That little dinky foam sword isn't going to help you much now!

* In case you're not familiar with them, Nerf is a company that makes foam bats/guns that fire foam darts, etc. They're very common in the US and to some extent in the UK, although I don't know how much further their range reaches.

EDIT:
Molarean wrote:
Jordster wrote:
More pointless retort lacking any sense of input on the discussion.

Thanks.


Just following your lead.


Kids, you're ruining Christmas. Don't make me turn this thread around!

Now stop sticking gum in your brother's hair!

Edited, Dec 29th 2006 7:50pm by RPZip
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#167 Dec 29 2006 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Love me or hate me, 150 replies (many of which are long and thought out discussions) shows that there is great validity to my complaint.

I did make an error in regards to Detect Invisibility - I've always thought it was a stealth detection buff but I'm not ashamed to say that I still learn something new once in a while. W/ a Felhunter out they get Paranoia which I am pretty sure IS a stealth detection buff so my point about them detecting stealth is still on the table, just not as strongly as I had thought.


In case you missed it, tests were done on paranoia. Using the STV arena, they had a rogue stealth up to cheap shot a warlock with and without paranoia. The difference in time given for the warlock to react was 0.7 seconds which is of no significance considering average human reaction time is significantly longer than that.
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#168 Dec 29 2006 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Molarean wrote:
It is funny that people want to nerf a 41 point talent that hurts them but won't even consider having the same thing happen to beneficial effects that have a small fraction, at best, of those talent points invested in them.


But, why? Are you referring to people suggesting that DOTs be removed after the cast died? What would be the point of removing buffs and why would they be treated the same?
#169 Dec 29 2006 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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Webjunky wrote:
But, why? Are you referring to people suggesting that DOTs be removed after the cast died? What would be the point of removing buffs and why would they be treated the same?


Why wouldn't they, if a warlocks 41 point magic ceases on his death why wouldn't a priests or a druids who has 5 points, if that, into their effects?
#170 Dec 29 2006 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Because they are different mechanics of the game? They are doing different things, plus what reason would there be to remove buffs, other than the fact they are abilities?

People are talking about removing DOTs (after death) for the sake of balance.

How would removing buffs balance things out? Other than being abilities, they share no correlation.

So again, I ask, why?

Edited, Dec 29th 2006 8:12pm by Webjunky
#171 Dec 29 2006 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Love me or hate me, 150 replies (many of which are long and thought out discussions) shows that there is great validity to my complaint.


Er, many of the replies were from people saying how you are exaggerating things or crying over spilled milk, I do not think those validate any argumentation coming from you.

Also, most of the long ones were thought out saying what could use a little rebalancing but overall saying that locks don't need much of a nerf.

Many of the people coinciding with you are just ranting something pretty much along the lines of "OMFG ! CHEAP E-Z MODE LOCKS JUST HIT 3 KEYS AND I DIE, CANT DO NUTHIN ! NERFNERFNERFNERFNERF !".

Demagogy doesn't make for good arguments.



Also, I think the fact that warlocks get so complained about is because they are strong and kill all other classes/specs, there are is no anti-warlock thingydoo people can point out at and say, "if you're pissed with locks, try that and you'll whip their asses like every single time", because locks are not supposed to be able to be taken down like that.

Good warlocks will be difficult opponents against anyone, that doesn't mean they have to be nerfed because they're uber-mega-overpowered....
It means you shall have to learn to live with dealing with such a difficult opponent whatever race/class/spec you are, get over it.


P.D: I like the comment someone in page 3 made, about making some DoT's disappear at death but not others, althought the way I see it DoT's are not supposed to fade away on death, it would "defy" their nature DoT's are effects that slowly harm the target from the inside without the caster actively participating, thus the difference with channeled spells. It wouldn't make much sense for the caster to die and you get better suddenly. I think, de-buffing DoT's a bit (+spell damage-wise) would be a better option.

Edited, Dec 29th 2006 8:23pm by Azatodeth
#172 Dec 29 2006 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Why should someone who has invested 41+ points into a talent line not get the full dps out of them, it might not help the warlock if his target dies but it does help the team and 41+ points should count for something.

I wonder if this would be the issue it is if lazy players hadn't come to rely on one button curing and decursing?
#173 Dec 29 2006 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Molarean wrote:
Why should someone who has invested 41+ points into a talent line not get the full dps out of them, it might not help the warlock if his target dies but it does help the team and 41+ points should count for something.

I wonder if this would be the issue it is if lazy players hadn't come to rely on one button curing and decursing?


Oh, now this is something that we can debate more on. The question being "Why would a 41 point talent be removed from death" is something that can be argued.

What I was asking was, "If you WERE to do that, why would you remove buffs?"



So, for the sake of discussion, let's stick to the first question and steer clear of the buff argument, as I truly don't think it holds any water here.

Edited, Dec 29th 2006 8:22pm by Webjunky
#174 Dec 29 2006 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Molarean wrote:
I wonder if this would be the issue it is if lazy players hadn't come to rely on one button curing and decursing?


Most asinine thing I've read in this entire thread.

1 button decursing is still here, btw.
#175 Dec 29 2006 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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It is funny, I have seen players die to DoTs literally surrounded by people who could heal, cure and remove curse, WoW isn't balanced around 1 on 1, the developers keep saying this and the players keep ignoring it.
#176 Dec 29 2006 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Anyone else notice that almost all of page four has almost no correlation to Warlocks? :P

I will try and lay out the stances for both sides of the current argument.

Cut DoT at death:
-You win the fight. Period.
-The Warlock doesn't need the DpS if they are dead.
-It isn't fair to other players to die because they couldn't dispell something put on them after the death of their target.

Do not cut DoTs at death:
-The Warlock used the mana.
-They are a valid form of spell.
-Other debuffs don't do the same, and no one would be happy if they did.
-Buffs last after death of the caster.
-The points spent in a spell should be valid.
-DoTs are the only real thing a Warlock has going for them, as a Mage has more
CC and powerful Direct Damage spells.


Just to clear things up for confused people.
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