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Hero Classes - Let the fun beginFollow

#52 Feb 23 2006 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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There are ways around that gear issue Kourg.

Just have the instances base the difficulty off unbuffed stats.

Each stat has a starting number and then a "buffed" number which is talents/gear added on top.

Have the instance put you back at "start" and gear won't matter. Weapons and spells will be based off of "unbuffed" DPS and DMG.


There are some ways around that, but it would mean buying sets of unbuffed gear. Buying gear based on basic DPS and Armor stats vs. passives, procs and +stats.


Even then there's still an enormous gear disparity. Compare the armor stats from my Dragonscale Breastplate to Striker's Hauberk. Compare the Arcanite reaper to Spinal reaper. The gear disparity is so far out of whack that the game may be unbalancable at this point.


Maybe they could force us to wear Twill and part of the quest would be collecting the full Twill set. Smiley: laugh




Edited, Thu Feb 23 16:48:16 2006 by Kourg
#53 Feb 23 2006 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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Oh dear lord don't make 60-70 harder then 50-60. Fuck, make it easier.

Leveling isn't the fun part of this game. pvping and instancing is. I don't freaking want to have to hit my head against a wall to get to the fun content!

I've just gotten a 3rd level 60 and the idea of having to grind 10 more level is actually pissing me off to no end and is one of the thing I'm not looking forward in the expansion.

WoW's already proven that the 'tried and true' MMORPG method of 'make them work at boring task to get to the good parts' isn't necessary. That you actually sell more if you give people what they want. They'd have to be retarded to implement something like this!

What does it matter that some people can get to 60 and they suck? Don't pt with them. Get in a guild and put them on your ignore list.

So 70 will be the new 60. So fucking what.


Quote:
Just have the instances base the difficulty off unbuffed stats.


What about talent specs?

Now you'll get people complaining the instance is impossible to do without Instant Arcane Explosion and Innervate and say they don't want to respec for it.
#54 Feb 24 2006 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Woot! I killed the thread!
#55 Feb 24 2006 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
Leveling isn't the fun part of this game. pvping and instancing is.


that's purely a matter of opinion.. since I don't really care for PVP'ing much at all. I have to be EXCEEDINGLY bored to PVP and even then if I do so at all it's likely with my hunter. I won't touch an instance with a PUG to save my soul, because of that my group of friends have to coordinate all our individual gaming schedules so I don't do much instance running at all... Even then it's allright but nothing to write home about. For me the fun *IS* in leveling... be it leveling my class or leveling my trade skills.

but that's just my opinion... but because of that I enjoy leveling various alts.. I'm the type of person who will over time have 5+ at level cap and working on more. I suspect when I have every class I enjoy at level cap and all tradeskills maxed and somewhat happy with their gear I'll be officially "done" but that's going to be a long time from now.

I didn't really think 50 to 60 was hard or even slow.. only reason it didn't happen faster is because of my alt-itis.
It's typical of these games to get slower due to higher level because of the sheer amount of XP needed. that's no biggie.. not like it'll be impossible to achieve or even really difficult.. it'll just take time, it's just not going to happen overnight for me as opposed to someone who playes as though there's no tomorrow.

Edited, Fri Feb 24 11:48:06 2006 by Iaini
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#56 Feb 24 2006 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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A lot of my skepticism (aside from taking anything some random shmuck on the internet says with a grain of salt) comes from how drastically some of those hero classes change the base class.
It reads like it was written by one of those low-level night elf hunters that insist on meleeing, or a paladin who still hasn't figured out that he's not supposed to be a warrior except better.

Anyways. Fake.
#57 Feb 24 2006 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I like how they say "There isn't anything on warriors because it hasn't been fleshed out yet."

More likely there isn't anything on warriors because the people who made it up couldn't think of anything!

Warriors already have several easy to distinguish roles. You either specialize in tanking or DPS or a bastardized combination of the two. I myself prefer dealing damage while being able to take a hit, so I decided to spec to arms/fury with heavy crit rate. In this configuration I can switch to one-hand/shield and go into defensive stance if needed.

What, really, would warrior hero classes be? Obviously they'd have a tank specialized one and a damage specialized one, but both of those are just natural progressions of the current warrior talent tree...
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#58 Feb 24 2006 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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60-70 will logically be longer then 50-60 because it will take more xp to level.

What I'm against is any artificial leveling limit because some people feel insecure and want the '70' beside their name to prove their worth for them.
#59 Feb 24 2006 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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true true... a "genkai~esque" task to breech 60th level would be *VERY* annoying...

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#60 Feb 24 2006 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't mind a good solid soloable quest to break 60, mostly because I want good solid soloable questing anyway. It's the idea of making it some big group/raid thing that gets on my nerves. I love questing, but I love it on my terms, no one else's. And, as has already been discussed, a big level 60 Genkai thing really does nothing to stop "just anyone" from getting 70, just the people who don't want to group/raid.


#61 Feb 24 2006 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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A soloable genkai would stop the idiots though. A genkai that you can't raid/group but have to do solo.

Gear would be the issue with that too. A Striker's Garb 60 would have an easier time then a Beaststalker's Garb 60.

At the rate the Petrified Leaf is dropping, I'll have full GS and some DS before I get to solo the demons. That will make a big difference.
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#62 Feb 24 2006 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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A soloable genkai would be just as much of a pain in the *** as a raidable one from my point of view.

#63 Feb 24 2006 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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A soloable genkai would stop the idiots though. A genkai that you can't raid/group but have to do solo.

Gear would be the issue with that too. A Striker's Garb 60 would have an easier time then a Beaststalker's Garb 60.

At the rate the Petrified Leaf is dropping, I'll have full GS and some DS before I get to solo the demons. That will make a big difference.


The gear issue, plus the availablility of online guides (after it's been figured out), would let the idiots through, same way idiots got past 70 or rank 5 in FFXI. Can't stop the idiot train.

Quote:
A soloable genkai would be just as much of a pain in the *** as a raidable one from my point of view.


I think you should start an "exp for PvP kills" petition, Tyr. Of course, I won't sign it . . .






#64 Feb 24 2006 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
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Warchief Tyrandor wrote:
A soloable genkai would be just as much of a pain in the *** as a raidable one from my point of view.


Check out the Hunter Epic Bow quest. Talk about a pain in the ***.

You have to solo 4 demons, no pet help, no outside help during the fight. Big ol' pain in the ***.

But it's doable.

That's what any "genkai" in WoW should be like.
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#65 Feb 24 2006 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Check out the Hunter Epic Bow quest. Talk about a pain in the ***.

You have to solo 4 demons, no pet help, no outside help during the fight. Big ol' pain in the ***.

But it's doable.

That's what any "genkai" in WoW should be like.


That quest pisses me off to no end.



"Hey, did you hear? There's a new epic Hunter weapon quest. It's supposed to be hard as hell, but IT'S SOLO! Smiley: yippee"


"Oh, wow, really? Don't tease me. Who gives it?"


"Well, first, you have to kill Majordomo in Molten Core . . . "


Smiley: bangheadSmiley: bangheadSmiley: bangheadSmiley: bangheadSmiley: bangheadSmiley: bangheadSmiley: bangheadSmiley: banghead



#66 Feb 24 2006 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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#67 Feb 24 2006 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, the quest really doesn't make much sense in that regard.

But hey, hit up one of the top guilds on your server. I know there's a couple guilds on Illidan that will "sell" the leaf for 200g.

Basically what they do is fight their way thru the Core (having you wait outside, or go with them) and when it drops in Domo's chest, you zone in, they summon you and you get the Leaf.

Would have to do this for the Black Sinew from Onyxia also.

At least the Blue Sinew is farmable.
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"Americans just aren't gullible enough to believe that they came from a fish," John Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research in San Diego
#68 Feb 24 2006 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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And does anybody go 'Wow... that Hunter rawks!!!!' because he has the epic bow?

Not really.

Putting a road block doesn't weed out the sucky player from the good one, it just makes everybody lose time.

Quote:
I think you should start an "exp for PvP kills" petition, Tyr. Of course, I won't sign it . . .


That would be so freaking sweet Smiley: grin
#69 Feb 26 2006 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok... So what blizzard is gonna make you party ONE time, ONE BLOODY TIME to party to make an advancement in a game where there is no other need to party beside to get good items..i mean why complain..from what i read of this forum most of us here played FF11...so we all no it forced us to party after lvl 10...LVL $$$$ING 10.......SO WHAT!! OMG blizzard forces us one time to do this and some of you threaten of quitting ...is your gonna flip out at the drop of a dime this is when you do it?? man thazt is weak.... lets compare one time here now can we pls...FF11....FORCED to party/group at lvl 10.....WOW...lvl 60....for 1 quest.....hmmmmmmmmmmm.....


Do you not see the relivance to blizzard possible making that quest...??? it is all speculation but still to freak out at this is mine-bogiling(not sure if this is how its suppose to be spelled) but come on the majority of us players in my opion would like this kinda of challange...now im think 15 man raid...you know something P.u.G. able......nothing like MC..or something on that scale..would be stupid..now i never made it to high lvls in FF11....cause the raid were.....stupid....i mean to take 4 hours to get 15 ppl together to go and kill 3 monster at lvl 20...AKA the eco quest...some times long..and to get a 5 man in kazhan one day i spents 7 hours....thats beside the point..

My point is i would love to see this kinda of challenge and if you really look at the game ...blizzard has already done this many time..for isntance....epic mount.....epic items....specific trade skill....IE.. Armor smithing....weapon smithing..fishing.....so why not..with the (epic lvls)hero lvls...hmmm...so what..all you ppl that grind and solo have to get into a party for something once in your life...i mean if your gonna play a MMMORPG then why complain...i know some of you think that if blizz dose this one time your thinking that they might start doing it for everything...well sorry to tell you.....................THEY ALREADY HAVE!!!!
/rantoff

Love ya all :)
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#70 Feb 26 2006 at 1:59 AM Rating: Decent
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So what blizzard is gonna make you party ONE time, ONE BLOODY TIME to party to make an advancement


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i know some of you think that if blizz dose this one time your thinking that they might start doing it for everything...well sorry to tell you.....................THEY ALREADY HAVE!!!!


Seems that your last paragraph disproves the point of your first to a large extent.

I've stated before in this thread that it is not just the idea of one Genkai type forced group/raid quest that bothers me. It's the fact that the game, as it stands, already forces too many group/raids for my tastes, with far too few, and unrewarding, small group/solo alternatives. A forced group/raid (especially raid) quest just so I can further progress my characters is too much. If I see that breaking the cap and continuing to develop my character will not be enjoyable for me (as I should have seen with FFXI CoP), I will (hopefully) draw the line before purchase and walk away, as is my right.

If you love big group/raid content, then have at it. Blizzard has given you a ton of it, there will be a ton more to come and I think that's great. But people like you need to understand that not everyone who plays this game likes to play your way. The game is built to allow for more playstyles than just the mainstream. That's very likely the largest factor in it's success.

Now, as for "complaining", positive/negative discussion about the game is necessary, productive and even sometimes entertaining, whether you agree with someone or not. Otherwise, why would Blizzard put up with that circus of an official forum? But, what you're doing here is merely complaining about my complaining which makes you quite useless and annoying.







Edited, Sun Feb 26 03:19:15 2006 by Kourg
#71 Feb 26 2006 at 4:42 AM Rating: Decent
This reeks of satire...
Especially the Human Paladin comment.

I think this is fake.
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#72 Feb 26 2006 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm pretty sure that this is fake.

Come on, Necromancers?

Mages dont have shadow damage, PERIOD.

Unless you count wands.

Also, the hero classes themselves are unorganized, if Human mages can have so and so, then so should undead?

No one starts over another faction/race just because Demon hunters arent provided in the dwarf priests line.

And what about blood elves?

Irreversable? I laugh.

BTW, tradeskills ARE reversable.

Also, i doubt that blizzard will have 8 hero class choices for the druid and only 3 for the rogue.

*Sarcasm*"Balance"*Sarcasm* is their middle name.
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#73 Feb 26 2006 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not convinced. That list contains numerous inbalances. Some just plain don't make any sense. Necromancer? From a mage? That's basically turning a mage into a warlock with no demon pet. Where's the logic in that? And the irreversability thing is that big givaway. MMORPG's are designed so that you can't really permanantly ***** your character up beyond hope. Pick the wrong hero class and nobody wants you and you're just SOL? I can't see that happening.

Shamibell says: Here, since they couldn't think up anything for warrior, allow me. Sentinel (protection), Blademaster (arms), Dervish (fury) Go me!

Edited, Sun Feb 26 09:50:36 2006 by Yunoh
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#74 Feb 26 2006 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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Sad to say, I don't think the ireversability is such a dead give away as many people think...

- In Beta, you couldn't change your talent at all. This was changed due to player feedback, but the original plan for the game did not involved respec.

- There's already irrversability in the form of crafting specialisation.

- A point specifically aimed at Yunoh, but a lot of MMORPG have irrversability built in them - DaoC had a 'talent' like system where you'd put point into 3 path when you leveled - you couldn't respec.
#75 Feb 26 2006 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I doubt that hero classes will be irreversable.
Because first off, it takes quite awhile for most players to reach 60, then having a hero class that they do not enjoy playing, would be considered a waste of time to many, especially those who cry over things alot.

Blizzard would certainly have some negative feedback if that does happen.

On second thought though, to contradict with what i've just said. It would make much sense if hero classes were irreversable, problems may be created, yes, complaints, etc. But it would be the most logical and "fair" thing to do.
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#76 Feb 26 2006 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Tyr, true enough but the difference is, it seems to me the people who make this game actually use their brains. (ie: The people who play this game are the people signing their paycheques so it is in their best interest to give some weight to their opinions)

Nobody likes the idea of playing all that time only to have one bad choice ruin it all.
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