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Hero Classes - Let the fun beginFollow

#1 Feb 22 2006 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Apparently people are getting banned from the WoW forums for posting this (wish I had a sock puppet now Smiley: lol)

THIS THREAD WAS DELETED AS SOON AS IT WAS POSTED LUCKILY I SAVED IT AS SOON AS I SAW IT, TRUE OR UNTRUE WE SHALL SEE, STILL A GOOD READ

Sources inside Blizz have revealed their plans for hero classes. Blizzard does plan to release hero classes with the expansion, but they haven’t explicitly stated it because they want to announce it close to the release date, insuring a huge amount of hype. I haven’t been told much more than the basics, but I’ll try to explain the system as best as I can:

At any given level there is a certain amount of content; at level 60, the amount of content is very disproportionate with the available content for other levels. The reason is obvious: it is the current endgame, and players need something to enjoy. However, with the level cap raised players would be able to blow through and skip a lot of the content that has been developed over the past year, and allowing players to do so would be a poor use of the developers’ time. This is where hero classes come in.

You will be stuck at level 60, just like you are now, even when the expansion comes out. An epic quest (of REALLY epic proportions) for each hero class will be made available to level 60 players. The only way to break the level 60 barrier will be to go on one of these quests to become a hero class. The quest will require the player to do a lot of solo content as well as a variety of group and raid content. Upon completion of the quest, the player will become a level 61 hero class <X>. They can then once again begin their normal level progression. A hero class is not innately more powerful than a normal class (but the level differentiation makes them more powerful of course). Hero classes will be available to everyone and although the hardcore players will naturally get their hero classes first, it is designed so that players of all play styles will be able to become a hero class in a reasonable amount of time. Blizzard’s implementation of hero classes will accomplish a lot of things. It will create a natural barrier at level 60 that will insure that the average player will experience more of the content Blizz has developed, it gives players a way of further differentiating themselves, and it adds a huge amount of new dynamics between different classes.

Each race/class combination will have 2 hero classes available to them (with several overlapping). This presents a monumental balance job (there are about 50 hero classes), which is probably another reason why Blizzard is delaying the information release. Choosing your hero class will be irreversible, much like the tradeskill masteries. Some hero classes are an extension of the “father” class, some have tweaked mechanics, while others are radically different. The easiest example I can think of is a Night Elf priest, for which the 2 hero classes are a Priest(ess) of the Moon (a continuation of the priest’s current form) and Demon Hunter (an agility-based combat hero with a variety of discipline-esque abilities). So without further ado, here is a brief overview of some of the hero classes:

DRUIDS

Night Elf Druid:
Arch Druid: This will be a hybrid class in the same vein as its “father” class, and Storm Crow form may make a reappearance.

Keeper of the Grove: The druid will sacrifice some of his shapeshifting abilities in exchange for improved healing and casting, and will even be able to command treants on occasion.

Tauren Druid:
Arch Druid: see above

Elder: This is essentially a druid that has lost some shapeshifting abilities and gained some beast-like abilities similar to the hunter. The casting and healing abilities are also amped up, but not nearly as much as the Keeper of the Grove. The Elder also has a bit of the Diablo II druid mixed in for good measure.

HUNTERS

Night Elf Hunter:
Ranger: The Ranger is sort of a hunter/rogue mix. The Ranger will use the energy bar, will have a few stealthy abilities (but not of the same caliber as the rogue), and will no longer have a pet.

Beastmaster: The Beastmaster focuses more on the beast aspect than the ranged aspect of the hunter. He gains new beast abilities, such as switching pets in battle, and is a bit meaner in melee combat in exchange for a lot of his ranged hitting power.

Dwarf Hunter:
Mountaineer: The Mountaineer is similar to the ranger (no pet, energy bar), but without the stealth aspects. The Mountaineer is hardier in melee combat than the hunter and and also has more extensive tracking and detection abilities.

Beastmaster: see above

Orc Hunter:
Outrider: The Outrider is very similar to the wolfrider from Warcraft III, focusing on swift maneuvers and incapacitating enemies. He uses the energy bar.

Beastmaster: see above

Tauren Hunter:
Tracker: The Tracker uses the energy bar like the Mountaineer, but still retains the hunter pet, and as a result is not as tough as the Mountaineer.

Beastmaster: see above

Troll Hunter:
Shadowhunter: This is essentially a hunter that drops some of it’s beast and survival abilities for some shadow spells (think Hex). The Shadowhunter still uses mana.

Headhunter: The Headhunter still has the ranged emphasis of the hunter, but it focuses on throwing weapons (a massive revamp for throwing weapons is planned). The Headhunter uses energy, has more combat abilities, and drops the pet.

MAGES

Human Mage:
Archmage: The Archmage is an exact extension of the mage class, with arcane, fire, and frost spells. Apparently one of the abilities being toyed around with is Summon Water Elemental. The planned incarnation of the spell will be a long-cooldown summon that will not function like a normal pet, and will instead function more along the lines of the Mechanical Yeti (no player control).

Necromancer: The only similarity between the Necromancer and the mage is the emphasis on magical damage. The necromancer uses shadow damage and has a major focus on pets, similar to the warlock. However, unlike other pet classes, the majority of the Necromancer’s damage will come from the pet instead of the Necromancer. I do not know if the Necromancer will be able to have multiple pets out at once.

Gnome Mage:
Archmage: see above

Arcanist: The Arcanist is similar to the mage, with a focus on arcane magic. The Arcanist does slightly less damage than the Archmage, but gains added utility and new support spells.

Undead Mage:
Archmage: see above

Necromancer: see above

Troll Mage:
Hydromancer: The Hydromancer is similar to the Arcanist, but with a focus on the frost tree. The Hydromancer may also receive the Summon Water Elemental spell. In addition to added utility and support spells, the Hydromancer will also get some limited healing abilities.

Shadowcaster: The Shadowcaster is essentially a mage that uses shadow magic instead of fire and frost.

PALADINS

Human Paladin:
Templar: The Templar is the holy warrior that so many paladins wanted their class to be. The Templar has limited healing, but receives a slew of new combat abilities, making the Templar much better at tanking and melee damage than the paladin.

Cleric: The Cleric is the other side of the paladin spectrum. Instead gaining new combat abilities, the Cleric gains improved healing, more utility and support, and some holy damage spells.

Dwarf Paladin:
Templar: see above

Cleric: see above

PRIESTS

Human Priest:
High Priest: The High Priest is essentially a priest that drops the shadow tree, but gains new damage spells from holy and discipline. The High Priest will be the most powerful healer in the game.

Spellbreaker: The Spellbreaker wears mail, has several combat abilities and diminished healing, and has several anti-caster abilities.

Dwarf Priest:
Thane: The Thane is basically a priest in mail, with a slight hit to healing abilities but a few new combat abilities.

Runelord: The Runelord is similar to the High Priest, although not as healing heavy.

Night Elf Priest:
Priest of the Moon: The Priest of the Moon is similar to the High Priest as well, but has some extra damage and utility spells coming from arcane and nature magics.

Demon Hunter: The Demon Hunter is radically different in playstyle from the priest. The Demon Hunter is a mana-using melee damage hero class. The Demon Hunter has a mix of discipline spells and combat abilities with some shadow spells mixed in.

Undead Priest:
High Priest: see above

Shadow Priest: The name is pretty self-explanatory. The Shadow Priest does not have all the healing abilities of the High Priest, but makes several gains in the damage, utility, and crowd control departments.

Troll Priest:
Shadow Priest: see above

?:

ROGUES

Gnome Rogue:
Assassin: The Assassin is an extension of the rogue with damage, stealth, poisons, and martial arts.

Scout: The Scout has slightly less damage than the Assassin, but is tougher in combat, and has the ability to use traps among other new utilities.

Human Rogue:
Assassin: see above

Scout: see above

Dwarf Rogue:
Assassin: see above

Pitfighter: The Pitfighter is a rogue without stealth, but with improved combat and defensive abilities.

Night Elf Rogue:
Assassin: see above

Scout: see above

Orc Rogue:
Assassin: see above

Pitfighter: see above

Undead Rogue:
Assassin: see above

Scout: see above

Troll Rogue:
Assassin: see above

Scout: see above

SHAMANS

Orc Shaman:
Farseer: The Farseer has more emphasis on healing and casting than the shaman, and as a result has less combat ability. The Farseer doesn’t use totems but gains it utility from other abilities. Feral Spirit might make an appearance using a system similar to the Water Elemental.

Spirit Walker: The Spirit Walker is a more direct extension of the shaman than the Farseer, maintaining a rough balance of combat, casting, and healing ability.

Tauren Shaman:
Farseer: see above

Spirit Walker: see above

Troll Shaman:
Witch Doctor: The Witch Doctor is similar to the Farseer, but has a heavy emphasis on totems. In addition to the elemental magics the Witch Doctor also uses some shadow magic.

Spirit Walker: see above

WARLOCKS

Human Warlock:
Master Warlock: The Master Warlock is an extension of the warlock class, keeping the pet and the vast majority of the warlock mechanics.

Shadowguard: The Shadowguard has more melee emphasis than the warlock, and loses the demonic pet. The Shadowguard on his own is weaker than other melee classes, but is aided by demonic-type abilities (such as burning blood and fiery breath) to power himself up.

Gnome Warlock:
Master Warlock: see above

Shadowguard: see above

Orc Warlock:
Master Warlock: see above

Shadowguard: see above

Undead Warlock:
Master Warlock: see above

Shadowguard: see above

WARRIORS

Blizz hasn’t fleshed out warrior hero classes as much as the others, so I wasn’t able to get much on them. However, it has been confirmed that Orc warriors do have the option to become a Blademaster!



Question marks (?) denote a hero class that hasn’t been decided on by the developers yet. I don’t know the Blood Elf hero classes. I don’t know the new Alliance race (although I hear they’re going to reveal it soon). I have no idea how talent/abilities are going to work, I don’t know what will happen to armor requirements and class specific sets, etc. Everything I know I’ve posted here, and it is subject to change as it is still in fairly early development stages.
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#2 Feb 22 2006 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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It'd be really cool if you leveled a priest and then got tired of it and wanted a rogue, bam demon hunter time!

Ooooh! Then you could give all the hero classes mortal combat finishing moves!

Awesome!

Edited, Wed Feb 22 16:29:29 2006 by fortnight
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#3 Feb 22 2006 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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You will be stuck at level 60, just like you are now, even when the expansion comes out. An epic quest (of REALLY epic proportions) for each hero class will be made available to level 60 players. The only way to break the level 60 barrier will be to go on one of these quests to become a hero class. The quest will require the player to do a lot of solo content as well as a variety of group and raid content.


If Blizzard keeps me stuck at 60 unless I go on raids to finish a quest (AAAAGGHHH!! FFXI!!!!) I'll most likely quit the game, and I probably won't be alone. Should make the raiders happy. They can finally have the game all to themselves.


#4 Feb 22 2006 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Kourg the Mighty wrote:

If Blizzard keeps me stuck at 60 unless I go on raids to finish a quest (AAAAGGHHH!! FFXI!!!!) I'll most likely quit the game, and I probably won't be alone. Should make the raiders happy. They can finally have the game all to themselves.


I doubt Blizzard would be stupid enough to make it a raid only quest.

But yeah, reeks of Genkai. The only part of all that I didn't really like.
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Seoman - 70 Dwarf Warrior - Anetheron
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#5 Feb 22 2006 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Obviously all speculation, but a very good read and a very cool idea nonetheless.

Thanks.
#6 Feb 22 2006 at 4:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If Blizzard keeps me stuck at 60 unless I go on raids to finish a quest (AAAAGGHHH!! FFXI!!!!) I'll most likely quit the game, and I probably won't be alone. Should make the raiders happy. They can finally have the game all to themselves




Oh, come on, that CAN,T be real!

turn your NE priest into a mana using rogue?

take stealth away from your rogue?

Master Warlock?

Master Warlock?

Master....


Warlock?

Surely they could have come up with a better name than that for a hero class.


That got deleted because it's misinformation. Seo, you didn't really write that as a serious post did you?
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#7 Feb 22 2006 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Kourg the Mighty wrote:
If Blizzard keeps me stuck at 60 unless I go on raids to finish a quest (AAAAGGHHH!! FFXI!!!!) I'll most likely quit the game, and I probably won't be alone. Should make the raiders happy. They can finally have the game all to themselves.


You'd be suprised how? Game is developed by FF guys anyway, so expect nothing less.
#8 Feb 22 2006 at 4:39 PM Rating: Default
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Pitfighter:

Non stealthing combat rogue = USELSESS

I don't know even with greater defense they wouldn't be a great idea.
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#9 Feb 22 2006 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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fortnight the Sly wrote:

That got deleted because it's misinformation. Seo, you didn't really write that as a serious post did you?


Just passing along what I saw.

Remember that blog post awhile ago from Merron (that magazine writer) where he leaked the contents of the expansion, and that was proven to be pretty true.

Have no clue where this came from. Guildie posted it, I copied directly off another guilds website.

Could be speculation, but damn it's fun to think about.
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Seoman - 70 Dwarf Warrior - Anetheron
Seomusa - 26 Draenai Shaman - Anetheron

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#10 Feb 22 2006 at 4:44 PM Rating: Default
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If you quit over having to do one "genkai" when you're free to solo up to 60, do the quest, then solo again from 61 to 70... boo-hoo-hoo.
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#11 Feb 22 2006 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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This presents a monumental balance job (there are about 50 hero classes)

I don't even want to see the O-boards after expansion release if this is true; I mean it takes months for Blizz to make balance changes as it is. Can you imagine?

"Patch 1.15: Farseers will be revamped.

In six months we will be addressing the balance of Blade Masters for patch 1.16"



Quote:
Choosing your hero class will be irreversible, much like the tradeskill masteries.

I do not like this. I don't like it at ALL. At least right now we can pay to re-arrange our talents; I would hate to think that I'd choose a hero class and reliaze it doesn't suit my tastes, only to realize that it CANNOT be changed and I'm screwed out of months and months of playtime. Oh, no no no. This is not good.

If it's true, that is... which I have serious doubts about.
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#12 Feb 22 2006 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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If you quit over having to do one "genkai" when you're free to solo up to 60, do the quest, then solo again from 61 to 70... boo-hoo-hoo.


I had my fill of genkai crap in FFXI. It was stupid there and it's stupid here. Shove your "boo-hoo-hoo" up your ***** You sound exactly like the type of mouth that makes me dislike raiding/grouping so much.


#13 Feb 22 2006 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmm

Why i don't think it is real:

A rogue that can't stealth

A hunter that can't have a pet

A shaman that doesn't have totems

The necromancer goes to the mage and not the warlock

A priest that suddenly becomes a rogue

A druid that loses shape shifting

A pig that can fly
#15 Feb 22 2006 at 5:10 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Quote:If you quit over having to do one "genkai" when you're free to solo up to 60, do the quest, then solo again from 61 to 70... boo-hoo-hoo.



I had my fill of genkai crap in FFXI. It was stupid there and it's stupid here. Shove your "boo-hoo-hoo" up your ***** You sound exactly like the type of mouth that makes me dislike raiding/grouping so much.


I'm not saying it's not stupid, I'm saying quitting because of one quest that you dislike is stupid. I don't like leveling 1-35. Does that stop me from leveling up alts? No.

edit: And by the way, I've only been to ZG and MC once a piece.

Edited, Wed Feb 22 17:11:35 2006 by BigThunder
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#16 Feb 22 2006 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm saying quitting because of one quest that you dislike is stupid.


You misunderstand me. I wouldn't be quitting just because of that one quest. I would be quitting because a quest like that would show me that Blizzard is going to continue and expand their current raid bias, even after all of the anti-raid flack they've been given. Not only would I need to raid for the "uber lewtz" (which I can live without), but they would be forcing me, hell, everyone, to do it in order to access new expansion content I paid for. I swore I'd never let another MMORPG do that to me after SE and their rediculous CoP fiasco.

Bottom line, if they're pigheaded enough to do this (which I doubt they are), then the rest of the game will likely be similar and they will have shown me that they intend on not only continuing, but expanding on, their trend of raider bias. In that case, I just don't think they deserve my money anymore.


#17 Feb 22 2006 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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I have my doubts of the reality of this. I mean, a lot of thing things just sound so generic. I would be a bit disappointed if Blizzard didn't put more of their ingenuity into the hero classes. I mean, Scout? Assassin? Cleric? Beastmaster? Many of the names just sound so un-Blizzard-like that it is hard to believe this.

However, a lot of the stuff sounds cool. I just hope Blizzard doesn't get in over their heads with the balance issue. It would be terrible to see these things come in, then be taken away because they realize they are way out of balance!
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#18 Feb 22 2006 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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I've seen this before - at least 1-2 months ago. It is a good read, but in my opinion it's blatantly fake. The reason - irreversability. It's extremely unlikely that Blizzard would implement any sort of irreversability.

Also - I HOPE VERY MUCH that you need to do some sort of "Genkei" to break the L60 cap and that ever level from 60 to 70 is uber hard and meaningful to get. I hope that you need to complete objectives at every level. I don't hope this because I'm in some uber raiding group and I'll win the race to 70 (I wont, I'm slow at those kinda things), but because it would be nice if getting max level was in some way indicative of your skill.

Everyone knows that ANYONE (who puts in the time) can solo to 60 with ease. Make getting from 60-70 a long hard journey, filled with class-specific challenges, and perhaps max level can gain some meaning.

Just my 2c.
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#19 Feb 22 2006 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent
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It's true that raiding has become an 'integral' part of the game (meaning that a lot of people do it to some degree or another, and the best equipment can only be obtained as such), but I don't want to see the game come to REQUIRING you to participate in raids just to level up. I don't want to be confined like that.
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#20 Feb 22 2006 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Warchief Jordster wrote:

I've seen this before - at least 1-2 months ago. It is a good read, but in my opinion it's blatantly fake. The reason - irreversability. It's extremely unlikely that Blizzard would implement any sort of irreversability.

Also - I HOPE VERY MUCH that you need to do some sort of "Genkei" to break the L60 cap and that ever level from 60 to 70 is uber hard and meaningful to get. I hope that you need to complete objectives at every level. I don't hope this because I'm in some uber raiding group and I'll win the race to 70 (I wont, I'm slow at those kinda things), but because it would be nice if getting max level was in some way indicative of your skill.

Everyone knows that ANYONE (who puts in the time) can solo to 60 with ease. Make getting from 60-70 a long hard journey, filled with class-specific challenges, and perhaps max level can gain some meaning.

Just my 2c.


My god do I agree with that.

I would love it if 60-70 was about more than X number of experience points that can be ground out by any monkey. But with that, likely comes raid specific quests that give the solo players fits. Bleah.

Luckily, I have faith in Blizz. They have done a great job with every product they released if you ask me.
#21 Feb 22 2006 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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I'm with Jord on making levels 60-70 hard to get. It's too easy to grind to 60, make the other levels worthwhile to get.

I really don't want the expansion to come out and 2 days later ahve the first level 70.
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#22 Feb 22 2006 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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I would agree with 70 being very hard to achieve. It would really detract from the "Hero"-ness of Hero Classes if all of a sudden 100% of the level 60s became heroes.
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#23 Feb 22 2006 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally id be upset if I had to do some long series of quests just to move on from where im at. By the time the expansion comes out i'll have at least two characters who have been dying to get more experience points for quite awhile.

I really hate seeing that 34/204000 xp or whatever my rogue is at, and if I paid 50 bucks for an expansion i'd want to go out and start moving that number.

If they do make quests I dont think it should be raided or even grouped. Some people dont have guilds and pug raids can be pretty bad sometimes, and it sounds odd to me that you would HAVE to rely on other people to become a hero.
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#24 Feb 22 2006 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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So, getting past 60 fast is reserved for the hardcores and at 70 they can take out 60's like candy.

And of course they'll get honor from this too, right?

*sigh*

World of Gankcraft.
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#25 Feb 22 2006 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Blizzard has already stated that going from level 60-70 will NOT be any harder than going from 50-60. It's a natural extension, not an Everquest-style level increase where they become massively more difficult to gain.

This is blatantly fake, too. The ideas just aren't well thought-out, there is absolutely zero chance that Blizzard could (or would try) to balance that many classes, and... well, yeah. Irreversible class changes are quite worrying as well, especially given Blizzard's drastic balancing moves on occassion, and they have enough trouble trying to balance the 9 classes as it stands.

I can see something like this coming out eventually... but not in the near future, which is why it keeps getting pushed back.
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#26 Feb 22 2006 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I've seen this before - at least 1-2 months ago. It is a good read, but in my opinion it's blatantly fake. The reason - irreversability. It's extremely unlikely that Blizzard would implement any sort of irreversability.


I agree that it's probably fake, but it's mostly wishful thinking on my part. Irreversability is indeed something Blizzard has done in this game and it's infuriating. Crafting specialties are irreversible. With new content, and new recipes, other specialties might turn out to be much more enjoyable for me, but I have to level another character, in the same craft, to access it. Blizzard is not above seemingly pointless irreversability.

I don't really think they'd do it on Hero classes, but, if it's like this read says, they will be quests, just like the crafting specialties, so I'm not confident of it at all.

Quote:
Also - I HOPE VERY MUCH that you need to do some sort of "Genkei" to break the L60 cap and that ever level from 60 to 70 is uber hard and meaningful to get. I hope that you need to complete objectives at every level. I don't hope this because I'm in some uber raiding group and I'll win the race to 70 (I wont, I'm slow at those kinda things), but because it would be nice if getting max level was in some way indicative of your skill.


I'm all for putting in challenges and quests before progression can be made. I'm all for them being hard as hell. I'm against them being forced group/raid excursions. Did any of the Genkai blocks in FFXI (with the possible exception of Maat, which was forced SOLO, ironically) really require great skill? Taking a group to kill Lichs for hours on end required patience (drop the damned papyrus!!), but no real skill beyond normal group grinding skills. Genkai II was simply a zerg. Just because it takes more than one player to accomplish doesn't mean it's more difficult, in fact, it often means it will be easier.

So, let it challenge my skill, to an extreme, I can handle that. I just don't like the idea of Blizzard forcing me to raid or leave. If they do, I'll leave . . . unless I'm stupid enough to give in like I did with FFXI and buy the expansion, most of which I'd never see.





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