Rules for duelling?Follow

/claimed 4tw!

Edited, Tue Jun 7 13:23:01 2005 by Iamadam

What a big bunch on whiners. Who cares what they use in a duel. As has been said, you dont die, you dont give CP to the person you lost too etc. So if you die to a guy who wants to use a pot or bomb to win, then what does it matter?
Those arguing that using a pot is showing off your money instead of using skill is just plain stupid. Pots in comparison to armor are INSANELY cheaper to buy and use, so if your going to complain about me using a pot to show off my money, then are you also complaining that the person who had enough gold to buy Blue or Epic gear is just showing off his money and doesnt have skill? I really hope you dont, and if you dont, then dont ***** that he spent an extra OMFG 30s to buy and use a pot.
Finally nowhere does it say a duel is a test of your basic skills/talents/etc native to your specific job. A duel is a duel is a duel, its a FIGHT between two characters. If you wish to only use skills native to your job then make sure you specify that with the person you are going to duel, and then if they break that aggreement you have reason to *****.
-Dicdonya

How is having better equipment than another player skill? Your equipment is limited too by gold. If you had an infinite supply of gold, you would always have the best equipment available to you. The reason you don't is because your gold runs out. You make choices with how you want to spend it. If you want to spend your 50g on a better weapon, that is your own perogative. If someone wants to spend their 50g on a profession(a skill they have), that is their own perogative too. No character should be penalized for choosing a "dishonorable" profession over a "honorable" piece of equipment.

No duel is a true test of skill. A true test of skill would require all things to be equal, and that simply is never the case. A person with better equipment could beat someone with horrible equipment even if the loser is a better player. The test of skill in a duel is how successful you can be with whatever resources you have.

Your definition of what's "natural" in WoW has no basis in reality.

There are no natural abilities. It's a computer program. There's nothing real here. It's ALL a construct.

If you can't handle someone's use of their character, for example the Alchemist with a pretty much unlimited supply of pots, then it says more about your ability to cope, or lack of it, in the WoW universe than it says about the Alchemist.

I actually agree usually... I've found that some classes have it over others IMO, so sometimes it's a good dose of luck of the crit, etc, instead of straight up skill. But in general you're right in my book. Working with minimal options IS a skill, and not a bad one to have.

That said, the self righteous and self important attitude of the jerk 3 levels higher than me who plants an uninvited flag on me, uses some wierd "natural" talent/spell/whatever to turn me into a chicken, then says "u have no honor noob!" when I use a pot that I leveled up for, quested for the recipe, farmed the herbs for, bought the flask for and finally crafted is what I laugh at. It's just such a wierd view of the game.

By the logic I'm seeing on this thread, anyone who plays an undead, anyone, is a gimped low-ranking nincompoop from the start - because they need to have something that no one else has in order to win, will of the forsaken.

Let's face it, there is no price (except being so dang ugly the smell actually comes through the screen! UGH!) for being undead and gaining this incredible advantage.

No other racial skill even comes close to it in usefulness - for most situations.

And even if a few other race's skills were close to it in usefulness, anyone playing those races would fall under the same ax - you useless inncompoop - you are so worthless you had to pick a *whatever* in order to win. You couldn't use your *skill* to win with a lesser race.

See how your logic comes back around to bite you on your asp?

I'm tired of this thread and this subject. If someone comes up and shoves a "drive-by duel offer" in my face, from now on I'm pulling every bit of overkill out I can and using it - potions, bombs, exploding sheep, whatever! I'm laying it on thick, too!

If you want rules in a duel, make the rules and make sure the other guy agrees to em before starting. Otherwise, quit yer bellyaching!

I think everything should go. Fight each fight like it's your last. If someone wants to duel me, so be it; it's a fight for my honor. So you can't die? Many people would rather die than be dishonored; they'd rather waste money than be showed up (look at middle class America. Ever notice that once one neighbor gets a pool, or a bid-screen TV, so do other neighbors? Even though they go into more debt? Yeah, it's sorta like that).

This debate is like using drugs in sports. People get offended: deeply offended. And why? Someone said using a potion in a duel is like going against a hockey player on steroids. Well, what if it turns out that hockey player wasn't on steroids, but pumped iron for hours while you ate pizza? Is it still cheating? Is it still wrong? "Oh, but pumping iron takes hours." Fine. He was born genetically pumped, and you're a tiny wimp (natural lottery sucks sometimes. You're proof in this example). Is it unfair now? If it's unfair for you... would it be wrong to take steroids?

The point is, everything should go. Interestingly enough, you have the option to buy potions (don't even need to be an alchemist!), use bandages, buy some lower-level bombs, take the time to get Crystal Charges (gosh-darn it, I loved these on my Paladin!!!!), etc. It makes no sense that consumables shouldn't be used. YOU could get them too. If you don't use them, it's your fault.

Odd that we don't point fingers at the losers who cry about illegal potions and call them stingy. Throw out money and time if you want to win.

Damn, now I sound like a conservative ^_^;. No, duels shouldn't be "the best money can buy"; but you don't need money to get everything. I've dueled higher level people with uber gear and won (fine, she was a level 60 Rogue gold-seller, and I was a 53 Paladin, but it was still fun :-D). Skill is still a significant factor. You can't use a potion or a bomb if you get stunned at a critical time. Knowing when to use consumables is a skill in and of itself; you can very easily waste a consumable and lose because of it. Cooldown timers teach this. And if duels hone your skills for PvP, and you use consumables there, then I think that duels would be the BEST place to learn when to use a consumable!

By the way, Linken's Boomerang is on the same timer as a Crystal Charge. You'll need to wait a minute before using a Charge if you start a battle with Linken's Boomerang. And you'd NEVER know that if not for dueling! Well, you might, but not too likely :-P

in my view the very reason for the duel is set up for a chance to train new ideas for PvP and see how well your character (note: character not class) is fairing against others at that point in a nice safe environment.

now in PvP i will not hesitate to use a bomb, trinket or potion if it means i don't end up dying and manage to swipe those precious CP.

so if i use dueling to test new techniques as to how to beat others why shouldn't i use an exploding sheep? if it allows me a new insight into how effectively it can be used in set situations isn't that more important than 'winning honour'?

if i beat you using a bomb or potion, does that not also give yourself another insight (usually stay away from anyone wearing a fishing bowl on their head ;))? can you yourself not learn from this fact and take it on to the PvP setting and be prepared for it when it arises or are you just sulking?

Allegory you mentioned earlier about a 'stupid' rogue who had to use evasion.................and? what does it matter? again he is testing a technique to see how well it fairs against a fellow rogue where he won't be punished if it all goes horribly wrong. it just sounds to me like you don't like surprises, and thats something you've got to learn to deal with. if someone takes you out at the last moment with a cooldown manouver or item you should be thinking how you can set yourself so that you are ready for it the next time and try to capitalise on it instead of constantly repeating 'If you NEED a pot or engineering item to win a duel then you have already lost.' over and over again and looking like a fool yourself, which from other posts i've seen of yours you are blatantly not.

i only use pots and crystal charges for pvp and really bad looking boss situations
but not for duel :x

I don't like moot points and usage of outside tactics. Like I said I can win a great many duels by getting people to flee from me, but that really isn't winning.

I just find it annoying how I'm trying to play a game of chess and then the other guy decides to sent a plastic missle to my bishop and say "I sunk your battleship."

So don't play chess with candyland pieces in the middle of the lunchroom floor.

false analogy

I'm all for the anything goes side. If the dev's didn't think it was right they wouldn't let you use potions/devices in deuls. so there.

And, for the ones that say it's unfair, well did you pay to have your armor/weapons enchanted? Not everyone has that skill, can't duel with em. Make your own arom or armor kits with your leatherworking? Nope sorry I have Enchanting/Tailoring, no armor kits in duels please. What else? Um, oh I know. You seem to have a really good guild that does MC runs on a regular basis, hence the BoP drops that you're wearing now. Well, my guild is small and mostly low level, we can't do MC. None of those drops please.

whew ok /sarcasm off.

And on the subject of honor. Well, I don't remember who said it but, "There is no honor in defeat."

Edited, Fri Jun 10 06:13:36 2005 by rikkscerberus

The devs aren't supernatural beings, they're people, and they're also making a game, they want to give you options.

I have I guess my own personal view on the purpose of dueling (I assumed it was everybody's view since it seemed so fitting). I see dueling as a test of skill, that the point is not really to win, but that under wha tI consider normal standards it achieves the same effect.

As a rogue I have quite a few cooldowns I can use in a fight, I try to limit myself though, because I feel the duel is a test. I could probably go all out and use every single one of them and win very easily, but what would I have gained? A chat log message that says I defeated someone else in a duel, whoop ti doo.

I can understand the opposition's perspective now. They see the point of dueling to be winning, and when winning is all that matters of course it's fine to use everything you can to achieve victory. I don't see the point to be winning though. I open challenge people much higher (not ridiculously higher, but sometimes 7 levels+) and I know that I will probably lose, but if I can beat them or at least put up a good fight I will be overly prepared for someone my own level.