[dev1010] Job Adjustments (4/22/2011)Follow

criminally? What, is some internet police gonna arrest him for a bad argument? Some Men-in-Black? Some super secret spy organization out to ensure the safety of good arguments everywhere?

:P

Again with this bunk?

Ranger and Warrior are only similar as both are intended to be damage dealers. While Warrior has recieved steady improvements to do its job, Ranger has gotten more damage tools yet no ability to stay at its ideal range.


Warrior is rewarded for being at close range. With the ability to gain TP from Retaliation, auto-attack making every hit count, benefits from haste and some of the most powerful weaponskills in the game WAR currently reigns supreme at its task given.

Though it lacks innate defenses, the ability to switch into PDT/MDT sets while still benefiting from auto-attack (this is a big freakin deal btw) allows the job to function within the party dynamic according to SE design. Call WAR a wet paper bag all you want, the job is functioning according to design.

...and then we have Ranger.

Ranger is designed like BLM to deal damage from a distance yet due to how enmity works (if you aren't taking damage like front-liners, you're a target when enmity fluctuates) the job winds up being forced to the front and made to take hits until enmity fluctuates again back onto a front-liner. The job is made to suffer because of how enmity works and is NOT working according to design.

Here's the part where you tell me "well RNG can switch into PDT/MDT sets too" and heres the part where I tell you that unlike WAR who benefits from haste and auto-attack (you're still swinging when you're *** is being kicked no?) Ranger is most likely trying to get back to that ideal distance, losing out on the ability to do damage until hate has been reseated. It's either that or doing more damage until eventually the healer lets you die.

Either way you've just lowered the DPS of every frontliner, who now have to chase the monster going after you and you've compromised the positioning of the mages who now have to curebomb a DD who isn't doing any damage because they do not benefit from auto-attack. Yeah, you can shoot arrows from 8' and eat the damage penalty till its off you but you're still punished for being too close.

The whole pitch of the class is to stay at a distance yet any Ranger actually playing the class will yoink hate and have no ability to use native tools to remain at one and subjob tools are a joke. Even if you sub /NIN or /SAM for defenses, you're still going to move the monster every time you barrage or weaponskill completely messing up the dynamic.

BLM and RNG are kindred spirits except SE has taken effort to make one more sturdy while ignoring the others obvious faults. I understand that there is a fine balance in making Ranger work (too many enmity tools and Ranger becomes broken) but when you see stuff like "more Bounty Shot!", its like cmon SE, try to actually fix the class.

Edited, Apr 24th 2011 1:00pm by SparthosofLakshmi

Torcleaver.

I'm going to assume that's a troll because there's no way you can be serious about that.

RNG is not fine, even in years past RNG DPS was the worst of any DD and they only made up for it with WS. Now even RNG WS are substandard. Even RNG as it existed in 2004 would be considered a mediocre DD by today's standards.




RNG can't deal top tier damage, RNG's total damage output is mediocre at best. And once you start having to hold back on DMG it goes from mediocre to "waste of a party slot". Nobody invites a RNG to DD if there is a job that's actually good available.



Edited, Apr 24th 2011 10:21pm by Lobivopis

Ah, so your arguing that Ranger doesn't deal enough damage. Well since you won't be able to turn that mob since you won't be doing that much damage, as I said, everything is fine.

Why should anyone play any job but Vethregana MNK and WHM Duo then? I'm sick and tired of half-assed optimization whores these days. By the thinking in this thread now: If doing top damage (and surviving) is important to you, don't play RNG, period. This is the same **** with the SCH discussion, and the same in every DRK forum for the past year.

If your friends only want you to play the top damaging job and deal as much damage as possible at all times... you need new friends. If you want your own job to be the #1 damage dealer in any situation you're just an attention *****.

So... YES! It's perfectly f*cking acceptable for someone to say "I'm dumbing it down a bit for survivability and utility guys." This is called /NIN on a two-handed job in most cases actually, or putting on Evasion atma instead of raw damage on THF to dodge a few extra hits if you've parsed above-floor on a particular mob before.

Anyone who thinks top damage is important or self-enabling is a ******. End of discussion.

It's not about survivability, it has to do with dealing damage more efficiently because the mob's not moving, killing RATK, and people aren't ******** that the RNG just pulled it out of range of their E-Peen WS.

Just want to point out that 400mp is not 80% of your MP pool, even for a galka. Also, a BLM with a brain will have a 400hp SS, and at least -20% Physical Damage taken gear. So if something's DA and hitting them for 800, then they just did a minimum of turtling up, they'd take 300 ish damage to MP. If a strong/prepared BLM were to be hit by that same mob they'd take somewhere around 150mp damage from that same attack round.

Stop playing dumb. You know damn well why the mob will eat your face if you're standing outside AOE range. It's starting to look like you're just bitter about the 2004-05 era and simply enjoy seeing RNG at the bottom.

Let me ask you a question. If you had one party slot available and had to choose between RNG and any other (decently equipped) DD would you choose the RNG?

Yeah I didn't think so.


Edited, Apr 25th 2011 7:33am by Lobivopis

If you are using Hasso from a Samurai support job, you will reach the 25% cap for haste from job abilities with level 3 Desperate Blows.

just an FYI, maybe a new sub, war or rdm (at later levels for haste)

I know a lot (I'd guess most) of people on this board have at least one capped job so I understand the focus being on endgame but I have these types of problems with my RNG and I am only in the 30s on it. So many of the problems I see exist a lot sooner than 90. It looks like SE has decided to get people started with the 1-30 and then will keep working on like 75-90(99) but if you are between 30 and 75 the best they can come up with is buy one of the abyssea addons and just leech. In fairness, I like the idea of being able to leech up some levels (may do it to get my WAR from 37 to 49) but it's like it was done to save SE time and effort dealing with the middle levels.

Undoubtedly someone will want to come along and say that they had to deal with so we can too and my response would be "I'm sorry" I'm sorry that you had to deal with SE's slacking. I wish they had fixed a lot of the issues these classes have from early on in the game that you had to trudge through. It sucks. I'd like to see it not suck or at least not suck as much from much earlier on.

For those RNGs who played before they created the distance penalty, did you often still melee or were you always staying out of AOE? Just wonder if the game uses the system from before the penalty where it assumes RNG may still be in melee distance taking AOEs from time to time. That's assuming they ever did stand in AOE range but I thought I remembered reading posts about RNGs meleeing for TP gains back then.

RNG used to be in meele range like any other DD and often was SA/TA partner to start the fight up with a Distortion or Light SC, before sushi existed the acc bonus was kinda overpowering, even with -acc+Racc rings your axe hitrate was good, it played kinda like SAM with a 5min Meditate that was Racc based (barrage), TP gain was pretty fast because you would get a few axe swings in between the shots, so it helped to even out the slower /ra macro pressing
When the game first came out RNG was a random meele class with arrows that stacked to 12 I think....

After they changed ranged attacks to the mess we have now rng/nin with a kraken was still better off than a rng standing back...im sure it still is at least for xp.

Rng/nin going balls with 2 axes and shoting for tp while ignoring the distance sh*t is prolly still the better idea for a XP pt.
Standing back with /sam is just wasting all the abilities you get because you have to hold back anyways, when I'm on /sam I just stand around and ws stuff thats about to die so it dies on the way to me from a /ra or a meele chasing its ***.

On sh*t that matters Im not sure, I only really use rng for Shin solos because I mostly have to tank stuff for my LS.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 4:08pm by DosenMilch