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Hiromichi Tanaka: "we're not sure" on FFXI future...Follow

#152 Aug 25 2009 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
VrKurosawa wrote:

*Kings fixed



Some of us like kings. Fix the botting but leave the kings alone.


Whatever they need to do to give everyone a fair shot. I actually think a lot of the botters and HNMls leaders will go to XIV since that's where the money will be. Might make the post FFXIV Vana'diel cool from that perspective.
#153 Aug 25 2009 at 3:59 PM Rating: Default
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Lord Dekusutaa wrote:
jpcampbell wrote:
Guys, come on. FFXI is freakin' huge. I've been playing the game for over four years now, and am probably just as many years away from experiencing the entire game. There's so much content. I know SE has had its problems in certain areas like customer service. But as far as content production, I can't really complain there, much less ask for even more than they've already done.

If SE is done growing FFXI, then they're done. The product is complete and there's no point in glopping more onto it. Keep playing until you've experienced it all and either quit, or join FFXIV (which I don't plan on doing because I'll be an old old man before I experience all of FFXI).


I think from a stricly business sense, even if say 100k people stay on from the current 500k, that's 100k in add-on, expansion sales they can count on worldwide.

I know comparisons to EQ isn't apt, but EQ now has around 100k players (Sony claimed 120k a while ago but no one knows really how many plays) and they get yearly expansions, because it's clearly still profitable to do!

This has nothing to do with FFXI's place, or any sinister plans on SE's part, its just raw numbers and business.


Exactly. If there is an audience-and I think there very well will continue to be-then SE would be stupid not to serve it. Hopefully they will, but it's not sounding good.
#154 Aug 25 2009 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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I honestly think everyone's overreacting to every one of these interviews. There could be some truth in it, but I'll wait to see how hard FFXIV bombsFFXIV is received.
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#155 Aug 25 2009 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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Whatever they need to do to give everyone a fair shot. I actually think a lot of the botters and HNMls leaders will go to XIV since that's where the money will be. Might make the post FFXIV Vana'diel cool from that perspective.


When the game just came out, it is not possible go their to "own" easily, so I do not believe people who are after E-Peen or bragging rights will move easily. In fact I would rather not see such players elements in FFXIV.... but trust me they will eventually come if FFXIV can stay -- may be not as botter, but some form of cheating to be #1 at any means. Cheating in a game an unavoidable -- it can only be managed; but I still hate it even if we never go away.

Edited, Aug 25th 2009 10:12pm by scchan
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#156 Aug 25 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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elite gear is part of every MMO. It's how they game path the road to these gears that matter.

I think with everyone capped at 75 these 5 years, SE has done a reasonably good job of pathing players to epeen gear. The one element they haven't done so well compared to other MMOs is the job's top tier weapons.

The relics/mythics are just increadibly difficult to get considering what you get back in return. And the bonuses you get from equivalent weapons in other MMOs are far more potent for much less work/cost.
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#157 Aug 25 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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If the goal of SE was to make it easy for players to move on from 11 to 14 I certainly do not understand how the advertised job system accomplishes their goal. Even without the aggravation and antipathy they have generated with their clumsy announcements and abominable costumer support I think they have engineered gauranteed dissatisfaction from ff11 players.

Practcally everyone I know in this game has multiple jobs at 75 and one or more high level crafts. Having to level up two characters to max out 1 job and 1 trade skill just seems like a recipe for failure to me. Regardless of any other issues the announced job and crafting system really nerfed my interest in 14.

So far 14 seems like ffxi with better graphics and a gimped set of options for jobs and crafting. The ability to level multiple jobs on one character is just too good to retreat from. On this single feature, from my perspective, ff11 is superior to ff14. While this may not be an issue for people that have not played ff11 I just do not foresee how ff11 players could possibly be satisfied by the restrictions announced for ff14.
#158 Aug 25 2009 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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Mistress Melphina wrote:
When S-E says they want their playerbase to play both FFXI and FF 14 they're not being realistic because of what a MMO entails, namely a whole lot of time. Peoople have limitations on what they can invest in a game because we have lives outside this game, and so we are forced to choose which game we want to play the most.


You obviously aren't speaking of endgame elite players that camp HNM's 24/7 and never seem to log off. BG is the hub for these players with no life. That being said, FFXIV is going to be a WoW clone in a lot of respects.

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And you know what? Truth be told I too feel the same way as many. I just don't want to leave Melphina behind to start brand new in a new Final Fantasy online adventure. It's normal human nature to have a hard time coping with change, and something like this isn't easy. I'm not sure if I'm going to play Final Fantasy 14 because since I began Final Fantasy XI I got a full time employment position and experienced many other time devouring life changes. I may try it out, but knowing that I could never play it the way I did FF XI is going to hinder the experience. And the thought of losing everything over the past 6 years even more so. Not just character data, but the friendships and linkshell members who will no doubt be cast asunder, scattered to god knows where. Some will play other games, some won't play mmo's at all, and others will take up FF 14 but will exist in too many different realms to ever keep in touch with. And THAT is the reason why MMO sequels face such a huge barrier.


FFXIV is going to be more causal hence the WoW comparisons. The Guildeves system is all they can talk about. It's basically Campaign OPs for FFXIV. SE wants us draw in more causal players, but I'm sure they'll include more NM's on the scale of PW and AV too. So don't worry, you won't be left behind as bad as your thinking. Now before someone wonders why I think SE will take a lot of cues from WoW, do the math. An early interview of FFXI had one of the producers talking about getting ideas off other MMO's of the time. Considering how successful WoW is, it would be stupid to not steal an idea or two. FoV has sold SE on the causal player base as well. So don't fret, you're worrying about nothing.

Edited, Aug 25th 2009 11:17pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#159 Aug 25 2009 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Dronamidgard wrote:

If the goal of SE was to make it easy for players to move on from 11 to 14 I certainly do not understand how the advertised job system accomplishes their goal. Even without the aggravation and antipathy they have generated with their clumsy announcements and abominable costumer support I think they have engineered gauranteed dissatisfaction from ff11 players.

Practically everyone I know in this game has multiple jobs at 75 and one or more high level crafts. Having to level up two characters to max out 1 job and 1 trade skill just seems like a recipe for failure to me. Regardless of any other issues the announced job and crafting system really nerfed my interest in 14.

So far 14 seems like ffxi with better graphics and a gimped set of options for jobs and crafting. The ability to level multiple jobs on one character is just too good to retreat from. On this single feature, from my perspective, ff11 is superior to ff14. While this may not be an issue for people that have not played ff11 I just do not foresee how ff11 players could possibly be satisfied by the restrictions announced for ff14.


I'm not sure where you got "Having to level up two characters to max out 1 job and 1 trade skill" from but comparing job systems from game to game like that isn't fair, especially without more info on FFXIV. You have to consider the game as a whole instead of just transposing a feature from one to the other.

FFXI has a lot of check points (like subjobs, airship pass, level caps, etc.) which make starting a new character very unattractive. That's why being able to switch jobs on one character works so well. You still start at 1 though so that means leveling in the same zones again and again, even if your not redoing subjob quests.

Take a game like WoW however, which doesn't have those kind of road blocks and a one class per character system starts to make more sense. Yeah you repeat a lot of quests but since WoW levels differently in the end your basically doing the same thing.

Having a one class per character system can actually be freeing really, as you can try out different races without worrying about having to redo those major stepping stones.
#160 Aug 26 2009 at 12:24 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Mistress Melphina wrote:
When S-E says they want their playerbase to play both FFXI and FF 14 they're not being realistic because of what a MMO entails, namely a whole lot of time. Peoople have limitations on what they can invest in a game because we have lives outside this game, and so we are forced to choose which game we want to play the most.


You obviously aren't speaking of endgame elite players that camp HNM's 24/7 and never seem to log off. BG is the hub for these players with no life. That being said, FFXIV is going to be a WoW clone in a lot of respects.

Quote:

And you know what? Truth be told I too feel the same way as many. I just don't want to leave Melphina behind to start brand new in a new Final Fantasy online adventure. It's normal human nature to have a hard time coping with change, and something like this isn't easy. I'm not sure if I'm going to play Final Fantasy 14 because since I began Final Fantasy XI I got a full time employment position and experienced many other time devouring life changes. I may try it out, but knowing that I could never play it the way I did FF XI is going to hinder the experience. And the thought of losing everything over the past 6 years even more so. Not just character data, but the friendships and linkshell members who will no doubt be cast asunder, scattered to god knows where. Some will play other games, some won't play mmo's at all, and others will take up FF 14 but will exist in too many different realms to ever keep in touch with. And THAT is the reason why MMO sequels face such a huge barrier.


FFXIV is going to be more causal hence the WoW comparisons. The Guildeves system is all they can talk about. It's basically Campaign OPs for FFXIV. SE wants us draw in more causal players, but I'm sure they'll include more NM's on the scale of PW and AV too. So don't worry, you won't be left behind as bad as your thinking. Now before someone wonders why I think SE will take a lot of cues from WoW, do the math. An early interview of FFXI had one of the producers talking about getting ideas off other MMO's of the time. Considering how successful WoW is, it would be stupid to not steal an idea or two. FoV has sold SE on the causal player base as well. So don't fret, you're worrying about nothing.

Edited, Aug 25th 2009 11:17pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


FOV was basically copied from WoW and SE has said they want Guildeves, which is an upgraded FOV to be the main activity on XIV, so while to call it a WoW clone may be too much, it is going to be very much a PvE take on the WoW casual solo no grouping needed playstyle. People will NOT party on XIV because they will NOT need to. You can take that to the bank.
#161 Aug 26 2009 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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Its actually very easy to get 1 year of content in seeing as there are 3 or 4 months in between updates now. Here is an example of how they can get a year of content in.

For example they could do this:
December 2009 - WotG Nation Quests Conclusion / A Shantotto Ascension
March 2010 - WotG Mission Conclusion / other adjustments
June 2010 - WotG endgame events added / more adjustments

1 year of FFXI content in 3 updates

*Sometime in 2010 probably after June FFXIV comes out.

Now we have to wonder will there be a new full expansion or anything else past the end of WotG, or by then will so many people have moved on to FFXIV that SE doesn't really add anything new to FFXI and just keep the servers up for people who still want to play and do the content that's already out.
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#162 Aug 26 2009 at 5:15 AM Rating: Good
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LoneBadger wrote:
VawnLakshmi the Great wrote:
Yes, some people playing a MMO had a problem with other people playing the same MMO's attitude, the game is broken and we should have no desire to continue playing it. You're an idiot.


Hm. Lets see here. FFXI sucks because it's NIN Onry. Then I get criticized by a guy who's pic on Alla is of a ninja. Well, I guess I'm not convincing you!

How's that NIN/NIN working out for ya? Find a party lately? Lemme guess? Everyone subbed NIN!


You obviously haven't played in a while. FFXI is not /NIN only. Did you even read that damn thread? It was telling people who always /NIN to STOP as it is often retarded to do so. The playerbase went through a phase where certain melee jobs shouldn't ever /NIN, followed by a phase where all melee should /NIN all the time. Today we have a happy median, we sub /NIN when it makes sense, we /WAR when it makes sense, we /SAM or /DRG when it makes sense, etc. This game was never meant to be /NIN, some people got on that bandwagon, not the game's fault people believe everything other people tell them.

Quit talking like you have any idea what you're saying just because you wish FFXI to die since you quit.
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#163 Aug 26 2009 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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Tanaka: The main thing we learned from FFXI was that once we launched the game, we communicated with our players to
I don't think I could have stopped myself from calling bs mid interview right then and there, if I were present. Smiley: mad
SparthosofLakshmi wrote:
Cmon, lets be serious. Once XIV comes out, SE is done with this game and all their eggs are going into XIVs basket. SE will say now "we'll keep the game alive" as to not arouse panic and/or frustration which would lead to a large drop in subscriptions but ultimately XI is going the way of the dodo as soon as their pet project grows wings and flies. The "content" will then be basically a cash-shop (we already see it growing on us).

Now if XIV flops, they might decide to fall back on XI in an attempt to grab the people they had in this game but right now the content is slowing to a trickle (augments are "build your own gear" till you get bored) so it's no surprise when Tanaka says "I dont know" because no one knows over at SE until its time to unveil the surprise buttsecks which in this case means "go to XIV or else".
No no, that is a crafting update, the spin on =29 insists destroying gear is the most awesome-est thing ever and that if you don't aug, you're being cheap!

Throw away something expensive and slug yourself in the crotch, repeat several dozen times then buy an HQ. Its faster and just as "good for the economy". Most aug'd things I've seen aren't even crafted. Anyone honestly believing it was anything but an attempt to automate making "new gear" for the game (so that they wouldn't need to create actual new gear) is living in sunny fantastic SE land where the sky is a different, magically happy color. In before pro-FoV aug karma bombers.
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#164 Aug 26 2009 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think I could have stopped myself from calling bs mid interview right then and there, if I were present. Smiley: mad


He probably meant the Japanese players.
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#165 Aug 26 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think from a stricly business sense, even if say 100k people stay on from the current 500k, that's 100k in add-on, expansion sales they can count on worldwide.


You're assuming every player buys them. I didn't touch the two $10 add-ons.
#166 Aug 26 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
I think it's interesting that so many people are assuming endgame content will be added to WoTG. I know there's that zone that has yet to be unlocked, but what if that's a new area simply for hosting the dungeon crawl to the final WoTG boss?

I can't remember whether SE mentioned new content coming in WoTG, but nothing recent stands out. We all know that SE is capable of announcing upcoming changes to the game that never actually happen.

If new endgame content was on the way, then why hasn't it been installed already? At this point in the game, I'd much rather have SE focus its energies on a new, real expansion for FFXI.
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#167 Aug 26 2009 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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FFXI isn't dying, but it's on its death bed and SE is the parents trying to pull the plug.
#168 Aug 26 2009 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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I can't remember whether SE mentioned new content coming in WoTG, but nothing recent stands out. We all know that SE is capable of announcing upcoming changes to the game that never actually happen.


They did, indeed, say that there would be some form of endgame content for WotG. It is unknown if its going to be a sky/sea type area or another zeni system or heck even whether it will just be some new HNM that free spawns, but they said they are adding an AV/PW calibur mob with WotG.
#169 Aug 26 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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they said they are adding an AV/PW calibur mob with WotG


I do remember this... I just don't honestly expect them to add a whole new system of NMs, given how slow they're reacting to other parts of the game that need addressing.

Again, I hope that I'm wrong!
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#170 Aug 26 2009 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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I do remember this... I just don't honestly expect them to add a whole new system of NMs, given how slow they're reacting to other parts of the game that need addressing.

Again, I hope that I'm wrong!


One thing for sure, if they fix what is there -- people will complain no new things. :P

Personally, whether there is new thing or not does not even matter to me, as I have yet to do a lot of things in the game, and I will never able to do them all.

The most difficult thing for adjusting the game is however: how are you going to balance players that are more like me with people who beat the mini-expansion in couple of hours and level WoTG jobs to 75 in 3 days? Chances are the former's opinion is rarely heard -- they probably less outspoken in specific details in the game, simply they are not familiar with it. The latter group will have a tendency to try to dominate conversations and opinions -- not only they are probably more familiar with it, but it is often considered as prestige in game to be at the forefront.

Chances are the designers will design game with the mind of slow player and only hear the opinions of the diehards.

Edited, Aug 26th 2009 12:09pm by scchan
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#171 Aug 26 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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No no, that is a crafting update, the spin on =29 insists destroying gear is the most awesome-est thing ever and that if you don't aug, you're being cheap!

Throw away something expensive and slug yourself in the crotch, repeat several dozen times then buy an HQ. Its faster and just as "good for the economy". Most aug'd things I've seen aren't even crafted. Anyone honestly believing it was anything but an attempt to automate making "new gear" for the game (so that they wouldn't need to create actual new gear) is living in sunny fantastic SE land where the sky is a different, magically happy color. In before pro-FoV aug karma bombers.


Id said it (FoV augments) did both. It stimulated crafting but goes back to a bigger problem where the game looks like its being groomed for autopilot.

The player has no control over the augments and unlike Fay augments it could turn out to be just about anything on a piece of gear. Yay trademark SE "luck = everything".

WOTG is still missing its 3rd HNM and endgame.

On kings? The only solution is instancing with daily lockouts.

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#172 Aug 26 2009 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Didn't SE come out in the census and say they had more customers / accounts than ever? Why would SE ignore FFXI if has more customers now than when it first came out?

If they really do plan to ignore FFXI and its playerbase, they are certainly doing it at their own risk. If the majority of players switch to FFIV and IF the majority like it enough to keep playing that game then they will probably pat themselves on the back and say "Great, we're so smart!"

However, a lot of dedicated FFXI players might not like FFIV or decide to switch over to a different MMO. The latter is even more likely if SE simply decides that FFXI has reach it ultimate state. Some players will stay as long as they can, but others may decide that it's time to find greener pastures. FFXI provided the fuel for SE to develop their new online game. It would be a tragedy if in the process they kill the very thing that made so many people dedicated gamers (or conversely a good thing so that a few us may get off our couches).

I love FFXI and won't try FFIV. I won't ever play another MMO either. This is my one and only adventure into this type of addiction and there will never be another.
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#173 Aug 26 2009 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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*Decent EXP pt option to lolbri.


SE could do a lot on this alone to make it more fun for players. At each level, there are only a few choices of camps and one type of them are significant better than the others (as far as exp/hr is concerned). It'd would be nice that they open exp. camps in different zones with different job set-up in mind, and each type of camp is about equal in efficiency. That would solve the party invitation problem for lolsmn lolblm loldrk etc. It would resolve the issue of over camp and provide more diverse play. It's sad that PLD Nin and quite a few other jobs can't find a merit party easy, it's sad that without bard merit party just can't fly well for average parties. We have how many, 20 (?) jobs, and yet we made one or two job indispensable for fast merits and some other jobs utterly inefficient comparatively. It's so unbalanced and monotonous. And frankly, to merit all jobs on birds/mamoo gets so so boring.

Edited, Aug 26th 2009 4:05pm by icebabyisme
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#174 Aug 26 2009 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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michelobmidgard wrote:
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I can't remember whether SE mentioned new content coming in WoTG, but nothing recent stands out. We all know that SE is capable of announcing upcoming changes to the game that never actually happen.


They did, indeed, say that there would be some form of endgame content for WotG. It is unknown if its going to be a sky/sea type area or another zeni system or heck even whether it will just be some new HNM that free spawns, but they said they are adding an AV/PW calibur mob with WotG.


Meanwhile they are running all their players off so no one can see it, or the fights that lead up to it.
#175 Aug 26 2009 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sentaru wrote:
FFXI isn't dying, but it's on its death bed and SE is the parents trying to pull the plug holding a pillow over it's face so they can collect the life insurance.


fixed
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Adjust the resolution of menus.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#176 Aug 26 2009 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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youssarian wrote:
Didn't SE come out in the census and say they had more customers / accounts than ever?


A lot of that may have been gardening mules. But it's hard to deny that FFXI's population has reamined fairly constant and servers quite populated with real players.

Quote:
Why would SE ignore FFXI if has more customers now than when it first came out?

Well, the discussion has long since removed itself from Mr. Tanaka's comment to a series of assumed outcomes.
The answer clearly is that they won't ignore FFXI and that asking why we are not getting any content/expansions right in the middle of their 3 add-ons experiment and just 4 months after their big March update and ACP and 1 month after their july update and MKE isn't going to yield a satisfactory answer.

Clearly though, for some people, the game is long dead. Why they continue to beat on the same dead horse is beyond me.

Edited, Aug 26th 2009 4:51pm by Dekusutaa
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