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Has Square Enix Banned Logic?Follow

#52 Aug 01 2009 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
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The double billing happened to me. And as you said KitMidgard calling SE worked cause they informed me, and I saw it after closer inspection, that they forgot to bill me the month before. So, they were just taking out the money that they should have the month before and that months.

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 10:59am by Daclivont
#53 Aug 01 2009 at 7:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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#54 Aug 01 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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I also agree that it seems some of the "bannings" were ignored. A large proportion of the bannings (see July as Phallucy stated, but it was as early as June for my brother) were given for "suspicious RMT activity" that wasn't gardening related. Gummibear has a list of what he had confirmed (iirc) reasons for being banned, and they included gardening as only one of the six. Multiple IP addresses accessing the account (on an online game? really?!), large amounts of gil being transferred to a single character (from the same account due to gardening? unbelievable!), repeated use of quests to make gil (when the payout is better than farming? why wouldn't you do it?), etc.

I would have appreciated some comment on this aspect of it, but I can understand if there wasn't enough information presented for Thayos and Elmer to comment on it.

I should also point out that when my brother called SE, they claimed it was for a credit card issue but when pressed, they couldn't prove it. In fact, the CSR said that the record was impeccable - everything paid on time with no discrepancies of any kind. It wasn't until my brother then asked WHY he was banned that the CSR told him it was for being involved in RMT. The CSR also tried to charge his account while they were on the phone only to find that SE had banned the card from being used.

Regardless of their reasoning, SE has destroyed my faith in their company. I don't even think reinstatement of the account and apologies would be enough for me to consider an SE (or Eidos for the same reason) title now.
#55 Aug 01 2009 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Most players only really notice RMT when they get a /tell advertising a gil-selling site.

I wish it would've hit on the RMT /tells more than that, but clearly the article's focus was not centered on that. Still, SE needs to know us getting barraged with RMT advertising in-game all-day every-day is NOT OK. Nice read though, not much you can do with all the bannings but cross fingers and hope now.
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#56 Aug 01 2009 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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ice, if only we could get this article published with various subsidiaries of the news such as 1up.com, Kotaku and such. That way more people will read it, see how SE are handling the game and refuse to try out FFXIV due to fear they might repeat themselves with all this bullsh*t they're pulling.


I cross-posted a link to this at the 1up.com forums:

http://www.1up.com/boards/forums/show/4.page

Not sure that anyone of any relevance reads those forums, but I figure it's better than nothing. Maybe if the article gets a lot of replies or hits, it'll get noticed there.
#57 Aug 01 2009 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Don't forget to Digg the story.

Oh, and not sure if they banned Logic or he just quit.

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 1:39pm by Pawkeshup
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#58 Aug 01 2009 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Great Job Zam. We've had our problems in the past, but nobody else supports the FFXI player base as well as you do.

I sincerely appreciate you declaring FFXI's faults in a voice SEI will hopefully acknowledge.

When FFXI craps the bed and runs away all its customers, I'll likely still be paying for my premium subscription Smiley: nod
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#59 Aug 01 2009 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with the last poster. I love alla so much, as long as I am playing MMO games and the same spirit carries from the ff forums here on to other game(s) I play in the future, I'm sure to stay.
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#60 Aug 01 2009 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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With an ally like Alla on our side SE has no chance. Thanks Elmer and Thayos. SE better read and reply to this.
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#61 Aug 01 2009 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Its honestly nice to see that there is at least still some positive vibes on this board :) FFXI is obviously going through some really dark times right now (well, at least for us non-JP's) and its been incredibly difficult to remain upbeat at all. Whats sad is that all the negativity and pessimism is actually entirely justified for once; where as just even months earlier we would have labeled them as definite trolls or 'WoW spies' lol =/
#62 Aug 01 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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I wish it would've hit on the RMT /tells more than that, but clearly the article's focus was not centered on that. Still, SE needs to know us getting barraged with RMT advertising in-game all-day every-day is NOT OK. Nice read though, not much you can do with all the bannings but cross fingers and hope now.


Well, I am willing to get the tells. Rmt really are not a factor in the game anymore, i never see them, they never get in the way. I think most of their gil comes from regular players selling to them.

There has to be some comprise, usually you cant end something 100% without complications.

and really, all they have to do is stop the free trials and the tells are over. Considering SE doesnt want to sign up new players anyways, might as well get rid of it.
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#63 Aug 01 2009 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I wish it would've hit on the RMT /tells more than that, but clearly the article's focus was not centered on that. Still, SE needs to know us getting barraged with RMT advertising in-game all-day every-day is NOT OK. Nice read though, not much you can do with all the bannings but cross fingers and hope now.


Really I don't think there's any way to get rid of them. Unless they didn't offer a free trial at all, but that's bad business. A free trial is a real good way to get more people into your game. I'll deal with tells if that's the only effect RMT has on my game.
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#64 Aug 01 2009 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Its sad that SE won't listen to its players unless someone with a little clout steps in. I feel like I'm a 1st grader complaining to my older brother about a bully.
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#65 Aug 01 2009 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Has Square Enix Banned Logic?




Yes
#66 Aug 01 2009 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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Well SE is Japanese and as a foreigner who resides in Japan, you'd be hard pressed to find logic here.
#67 Aug 01 2009 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
Really I don't think there's any way to get rid of them. Unless they didn't offer a free trial at all, but that's bad business. A free trial is a real good way to get more people into your game.

I'd bet all my gil that 99% of the trial accounts utilized are done so by RMT. It's a cesspool for them; it largely allows them to do what they do. If SE is sincere with all their effort and time devoted to combatting RMT, then it actually would be good business.

Don't want to get rid of trial accounts altogether? Charge a couple dollars to try their game, for the small amount of legitimate players that might consider it.. Think that's too much, when they're ******** over all of their loyal players now?

Edit- and besides that, to my initial point, they could at least devise something to stop their players and their game from being raped by RMT tells. Chatmon does it apparently, SE could do something. There are ways to combat the issue, just like they did with RMT Fishers. Try doing that at Lv 1 now...

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 11:39pm by Carrilei
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#68 Aug 01 2009 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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Without a free trial I never would've gotten into WoW, which I still believe to be a great game. But I didn't want to spend $50 to find out if I liked the game or not. Being able to download it and play for a couple weeks really let me know a bit about the game and if I'd enjoy it or not. That's how I'm going to treat every MMO now. If I don't get any play experience in the game first for free, I'm not going to give it a shot.

And there are a lot of people that don't want to get out their credit card for a $1/2 fee just to try out a game.

RMT tells are hardly that bothersome. I am used to ignoring people by now, RMT is just an extra person every few hours to not pay any attention to.
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#69 Aug 01 2009 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
RMT tells are hardly that bothersome. I am used to ignoring people by now, RMT is just an extra person every few hours to not pay any attention to.

I disagree.. I used to be able to get lost in the game, and enjoy the escape.. Now I get a /tell from Iksdkfjdsjlks every 30 minutes - and it disrupts whatever I was up to, and kills the innocence of the experiance.

It's nothing horrific; just ignore it and move on.. But I can honestly say this was a better game before late 2008.. Entirely because of RMT spamming tells (and SE allowing it).

Imagine watching a baseball/football/basketball game, and every commercial being for steroids. That's what this is like. And it sucks.

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 11:18pm by Carrilei
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#70 Aug 01 2009 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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I don't get your analogy. If you're watching a baseball/football game you're watching a commercial for steroids.
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#71 Aug 01 2009 at 7:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Forget the analogy then, it was only semi-applicable lol. Point was that the innocence of the event is taken away.. When you get advertising from something (supposedly) illegal shoved in your face. At least that's how I feel.

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 11:22pm by Carrilei
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#72 Aug 01 2009 at 7:32 PM Rating: Default
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Carrilei wrote:
SirEaglestrike wrote:
Really I don't think there's any way to get rid of them. Unless they didn't offer a free trial at all, but that's bad business. A free trial is a real good way to get more people into your game.

I'd bet all my gil that 99% of the trial accounts utilized are done so by RMT. It's a cesspool for them; it largely allows them to do what they do. If SE is sincere with all their effort and time devoted to combatting RMT, then it actually would be good business.

Don't want to get rid of trial accounts altogether? Charge a couple dollars to try their game, for the small amount of legitimate players that might consider it.. Think that's too much, when they're ******** over all of their loyal players now?

Edit- and besides that, to my initial point, they could at least devise something to stop their players and their game from being raped by RMT tells. Chatmon does it apparently, SE could do something. There are was to combat the issue, just like they did with RMT Fishers. Try doing that at Lv 1 now...

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 11:05pm by Carrilei


I do get the steroids analogy and think it fits fine. I also believe that getting rid of trial accounts might hurt the game further although it will definitely hurt the rmt as they would have to put up real money to play the game again and get banned. Think the best solution would be to limit the growing on low lvl char. One pot seems good. For charging a couple of dollars to play there was a trial disk at one point that was 1 or 2 dollars and i think the rmt took advantage of that also. Might be able to get the provider of the online trial dl to get something also. I believe it already has a requirement for what nation you are in and people are getting around that by connecting through a proxy. If the online vendor was to limit the codes obtained via an ip that might help.
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#73ShadowedgeFFXI, Posted: Aug 01 2009 at 7:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Maybe you can explain why you keep trolling the forums then. If you don't believe in SE enough to think they can rectify the problem, why continue to waste time posting about it? Listen, I understand you're upset because SE is epic failing right now. It takes them such a long time to admit any mistake. Imagine if one day SE fixes these issues that have caused others to give up, you'll have a great game and system in place if only you hadn't gave up so early. I truly believe a lot of their changes are being put in place to help make FFXIV run more smoothly off the bat. The POL billing system was never working as intended. My first and last name is reversed for crying out loud and they still haven't fixed that.
#74 Aug 01 2009 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I honestly don't get why they would ban like this.

RMT used to be the bane of the game. Now they are just slightly annoying and perhaps help inflate the economy, to what extent I really can't be sure, by making NPC money. They did this anyway using the old standby NPC farmed items. I don't believe going from Bugards & Bats to toko grass has changed how much NPC money RMT pumps into the game.

At this point it seems more like a vendetta at the expense of the player base with no real thought behind it on SE's part, other than "RMT = BAD". Sure its against the ToS, but RMT are no longer such a blight on the game that it should have reached the point of automated mass bannings for anything that comes even close to the activity of legit players.

Is RMT bad enough to risk legit, loyal customers? Everyone's personal ethics aside, I don't believe they warrant a response that would put a legit account up for review let alone auto ban. They aren't that bad on the game anymore.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2009 3:42am by Yashnaheen
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#75 Aug 01 2009 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Dracoth wrote:

I should also point out that when my brother called SE, they claimed it was for a credit card issue but when pressed, they couldn't prove it. In fact, the CSR said that the record was impeccable - everything paid on time with no discrepancies of any kind. It wasn't until my brother then asked WHY he was banned that the CSR told him it was for being involved in RMT. The CSR also tried to charge his account while they were on the phone only to find that SE had banned the card from being used.

Regardless of their reasoning, SE has destroyed my faith in their company. I don't even think reinstatement of the account and apologies would be enough for me to consider an SE (or Eidos for the same reason) title now.


Maybe you can explain why you keep trolling the forums then. If you don't believe in SE enough to think they can rectify the problem, why continue to waste time posting about it? Listen, I understand you're upset because SE is epic failing right now. It takes them such a long time to admit any mistake. Imagine if one day SE fixes these issues that have caused others to give up, you'll have a great game and system in place if only you hadn't gave up so early. I truly believe a lot of their changes are being put in place to help make FFXIV run more smoothly off the bat. The POL billing system was never working as intended. My first and last name is reversed for crying out loud and they still haven't fixed that.

SE has destroyed a RMT threat unlike never before seen in a MMO. It's unfortunate so many innocent players have became swept up under the RMT banning system. I think it's sad you quit all because SE banned your brother because of a RMT glitch. Eventually things will be resolved and you'll be missed by friends and lsmates. The choice is yours, but I think it's safe to say some of you guys really need to learn some patience and understanding of how other cultures operate. Blizzard is not a JP company and obviously it's not logical to compare the 2 companies. SE has taken steps to better understand how their needs of international players. If you think about it, most of the JP players are on the PS2. I'd say most of the NA players play on PC. We now have a Windower program and security token that basically caters to the PC users. SE is just very slow in implementing change and often makes a tactical error of the big picture. Computer security is a death trap unless make it your business to know all the variables and stay updated.


In closing, FFXI began life as merely as a PS2 MMO game, nothing more. Over the years, SE has raised the bar in protecting its users albeit a tad slow for most of tastes. Everyone was quick to point fingers at SE for failing to recover compromised accounts back before RMT keyloggers came out. You guys remember, those morons who gave out their password to 'friends' in game that came back to bite them in the ***. Then we had more idiots who used IE to surf the web and found their accounts hacked because of a malicious code by RMT's on unofficial community sites. That wasn't their fault either, yet everyone blamed SE for the end result. That's like losing your credit card and becoming irate at the bank because someone purchased items on it. Yet as the card holder, you didn't call the bank right away to report the card lost. The bottom line is we the players have tied up SE hands for quite a long time. Anyone who has every botted or know of someone that has. All those times you seen someone pos hack across the zone or some other random exploit only forced SE to use more resources to pursue the cheaters and less focus on issues like this one.


Edited, Aug 1st 2009 10:46pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


I can't help an effort for people who wish to actually play the game again by providing further assistance? Was I not a part of this community? Maybe I still like the community here and enjoy the feeling of camaraderie here. Who are you to either call me a troll or tell me where to spend my time? Have I posted information about my banning on posts where it isn't relevant? The closest I have is in agreeing with someone that not every post on this forum needs to turn into a post about the banning. But, when that's what the OP is about, it's appropriate, so I add my support to what's going on. I'm sorry that my feeling like I'm still a part of the Alla community has you thinking I'm a troll - you're free to think that however you want.

Besides, for the most part, I've mostly kept my posts to the topic at hand. If it's about the bannings, I've participated in talking about it. If it's not, I've actually contributed information that's still helpful. Just because I'm disillusioned with the company doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the game and don't want to help those who are still playing.
#76 Aug 01 2009 at 10:03 PM Rating: Default
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Ok so I am about 3 minutes from cancelling my subscription. My GF, yes I have a ffxi gf big deal wanna fight about it? My GF just got LM-17ed because her card was denied more than 3 times today. She has to wait until monday to call and see why if she can input the new card which I told her to use.

Now it not only looks like the Salem Witch trials, this ******* IS those damn trials.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2009 2:25am by lightningcount
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