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An Open Letter to Square EnixFollow

#77 Dec 10 2008 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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With making gil in FFXI you either must go all out and spend hours and hours a day or not make anything substantial at all.


I spend almost no time at all farming. I would put old farming beast blood in there with going "all out and spending hours and hours a day". I have better ways.
#78 Dec 10 2008 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good
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And seriously... with how few items were actually nerfed were these things really farmed THAT heavily that this change spells certain doom for the economy? I mean with how people are putting so much significance on it I'd have to imagine that these areas were being farmed 24/7 by masses of people or something...


Well they were farmed pretty heavily especially Zitah and Buburimu.

I think the doom comes from the steady erosion of gil making options over time. In Spring the nerfed the Rolanberry Cargo quest for gil. In Fall they nerfed the Mistletoe farming. Now they nerf Bloods, bugards, Demons. These were all pretty active and competitive farming sites for legitimate players.

Where are they all going to go? A lot of the consumable crafting is so cutthroat that only the 100+ crafters can make a decent profit. Gardening requires daily visits which is not possible for a lot of casual players with other daily committments. HELM and Choco digging are options but will become competitive too if everyone goes there and drives prices down.

I'm not saying this nerf is the end all of nerfs. It's just an ongoing saga of SE attacking its playing population without justification or alternatives. Personally it does push me closer to quitting the game (but I'm not there yet).
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#79 Dec 10 2008 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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How is it abusing? Tell me how going to a zone, killing a mob, getting a drop and selling it is abusing. Please tell me, and the rest of the players how we are supposed to earn gil. Where is the gil supposed to come from?


You're abusing SE's lack of foresight and their belief that they were doing something to help all the Bst's out there.

SE didn't increase the drop rate on the bloods and saliva so people could farm day and night and then npc all their results to the closest npc and funnel gil into the economy.

Before SE changed the drop rates on things like beast blood they weren't a common drop. SE decides they want to give Bst's a break making jugs and not only increased the drop rate and rate of multiple drops.

SE made the mistake of not reducing the sell price to npc's to match the new abundance of drops. They realized their mistake and now they fixed it.

If SE had made this change back when they changed the drop rate do you know what would be happening now? Absolutely nothing. People would be off farming any of the multitude of other items out there and no one would be preaching the impending doom of the game.
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#80 Dec 10 2008 at 11:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Not everyone likes to play bst, just like everyone chooses to be what they want, not what someone wants them to be.

Them changing stuff because of RMT counter measures is making me lose intrest in the game, back then it was really fun to hunt some of these NM's, least I had some time to do something other than Level up all the time.

It seems when I find something fun to do, it is removed because of RMT, yet I am a big fan of Square-enix, this is a game to have fun in and shouldnt be a struggle to do something, I raise my cup to some of the stuff they have did, though I wish they could cut us a break when it comes to stopping RMT.

All I can say is what are they gonna ***** up next?
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#81 Dec 10 2008 at 11:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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iknoweverything wrote:
SE wants us to make money by trading it from one person to the other via AH, crafting, HELMing, etc. If everyone made money purely from npcing items, there would be no reason for a crafting system.

The gil has to come from somewhere though. There are plenty of gil sinks in the game (airship, teleport NPCs, chocobo rentals, Dynamis, Limbus, etc). If there aren't enough sources to introduce gil back into the system, prices will deflate. It's much harder to "do business" when gil is scarce compared to when gil is plentiful.
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#82 Dec 10 2008 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know if this was because of RMTs or not. Do you know? Does anyone know? That's the thing, SE never tells us why they do it exactly. :\

RMTs have been farming a lot of these items, because yes it is a good idea to sell, and possibly a secretive way also since your name wont be shown on AH or anything. Personally I found it to be the second best way to farm, myself, and since the big deflation a lot of my friends have been farming this way also.

It also reminds me of the RMT nerfs of the past though too, such as the Rolanberry quest which was at one point the way I use to farm. >_< It's just really frustrating to have your source of money taken away, you know? So I can feel other's sympathy to this subject.
#83Catwho, Posted: Dec 11 2008 at 6:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You know, I hear this quite frequently and I'm puzzled over it. Are none of you folks in any kind of linkshell at all?
#84 Dec 11 2008 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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You know, I hear this quite frequently and I'm puzzled over it. Are none of you folks in any kind of linkshell at all?


I play in GMT, and even the endgame shells I was in barely made 20 members on event nights. In most socials I have been in there are around 30 members across all time zones, of which maybe quarter have any endgame experience at all. As such very few people are willing to stump up the gil for Dynamis runs, or use up 99 seals, for what is more than likely going to be a catastrophic failure.

It is difficult to attract any players with experience to a social or inexperienced ls, generally they are in shells with longtime friends, and the ls has evolved from one pearl holder to the next over the years, with more or less the same members, save those that left or started their own ls.


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#85DonFlamenco, Posted: Dec 11 2008 at 6:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's a conspiracy; SE is hugecheap.com.
#86 Dec 11 2008 at 7:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, 30 is a busy night for us as well; we're used to 24 for Jailor of Love fights, max.

Whoever suggested that RMT are spamming BCNMs and KS99s though really ought to consider how difficult is is to acquire the needed number of beastman seals for that kind of investment. No, they are much moer likely to level a party of black mages and a bard to 75, and spam the avatars by pos-hacking. It can be done indefinitely; they don't have to stop and farm for seals in between rounds.
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#87 Dec 11 2008 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
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PlanckZero wrote:
You're abusing SE's lack of foresight and their belief that they were doing something to help all the Bst's out there.
<snip>
SE decides they want to give Bst's a break making jugs and not only increased the drop rate and rate of multiple drops.


NPC price on these have been nerfed for about three days now. Current price for a stack of Clear Blood Broth on Hades, 120k/stack. Number of stacks on the AH, 0.

Thanks for throwing us a bone SE...

As has already been stated, Beastmasters could **** these ingredients. If there isn't a better way to obtain Lizard Blood, it makes no difference.

I wasn't a blood farmer, but this is a kick in the nuts directly from SE to the player base. I don't know anyone that was getting rich doing this. I don't know that many rich players. I sure do know a hell of a lot of people that are broke all the time though.

Earning some gil should not be THAT hard, but it does look to me that the majority of the player base does struggle with it.
#88 Dec 11 2008 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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this maybe a stupid comment, but why not make it that when you sell something to a vendor it becomes an item the vendor can sell. Also like an active inventory.

so you have the smithing guy, he runs out of iron ores, some guy has a day of farming and sells them to the npc and it restocks him.

would kind of solve a problem when deflation gets so low that every just npcs things then you would have to farm your own crysters per say if you wanted some.

only thing is maybe you would have to group some npcs inventories together, like they were a mini mart chain.
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#89 Dec 11 2008 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
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If SE is doing this to combat RMT, then they are going too far. Removing ways to legitimately make gil in the game will only send frustrated players to the gil stores.

If SE is doing this to control the economy, then they need to have developers take a finance course. The FFXI economy has been in recession for quite a while now. While the actions taken to counter the massive inflation of a couple years ago were needed, that is not the case now. You don't combat a recession by removing money from the economy, you provide stimulus instead. A moderate amount of inflation is the only form of stable economy.
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#90 Dec 11 2008 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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I understand, in a perverse way, Zi'tah and Bubu, there were always people there (on Odin) and you had to be on your toes to get your money's worth, but Castle Baileys confuses me. On Odin it could only support two farmers making about 40-50k an hour (if anyone says they were making more, then they simply got lucky on drops or are flat out lying). You could usually find one person there, on occasion there were a couple people there. What kills me though is how much the nerfed the weapon prices, they were lowered to something like 3% of what they used to go for. The bloods didn't get nerfed like that, so what was the logic in the Castle? Some people in my LS claimed it was because RMT were abusing the coffers, but to be honest I could almost always find the coffer if I was looking for it, so I don't buy it.

Castle Baileys was a great way to make money AND, more importantly, allow me to level my NPC while I farmed. I'm gonna finish a stack of demon horns, open one last coffer and probably never go back, the update was a sad day for a zone I had become accustomed to. Oh, and I see Manitcore Hair has seen a dramatic jump in availability as well as price deflation on Odin, can't imagine why >.<
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#91 Dec 12 2008 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm the perfect example....I played hardcore for years. Now, with a wife and baby, its nearly impossible for me to play....I came back and loved beastmaster which worked perfectly for me. Then, my gil ran out. With very limited time to play, the thought of spending that time farming was not appealing. I found out about beast blood and it worked great! Unfortunately, I found out about it 3 days before the update.

Account canceled.
/sorrow
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#93 Dec 12 2008 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know how I managed to do it but I hit 75 in 3 jobs, spent millions on spells and bullets, got good purchasable gear, took clothcraft to 88, dropped about 2 million on a friends gear and spells and I did it all without the help of BCNMS and end game activities..

Oh.. And I never once have farmed objects to be sold for gil to NPCs.
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#94 Dec 12 2008 at 1:12 PM Rating: Default
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Try leveling a craft, try doing BCNM's, try camping NM's, try farming things where u have to sell to the AH.


I think most people who farm npc sellable items do this as well. Certainly I've done BCNM's, camped the occasional NM (although this is possibly the worst use of time in general), farmed AH items, and levelled 3 crafts to at least 50.

I try to make money many different ways but there are times your AH slots are full, you're out of seals and you still need some quick money to get some food/gear/consumables.

I would think most players are similar with many ways to make money. We just don't like SE removing a large number of them in one go.
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#95 Dec 12 2008 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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Oh.. And I never once have farmed objects to be sold for gil to NPCs.


So you put every last one of your drops up on the AH? How'd it go selling those colibri beaks and feathers?
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#96 Dec 12 2008 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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Dartagnann wrote:
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Oh.. And I never once have farmed objects to be sold for gil to NPCs.


So you put every last one of your drops up on the AH? How'd it go selling those colibri beaks and feathers?
I think he means he never set out to farm with the intent to sell his drops to an npc.

As for myself, I discovered this by accident. I went out to farm something else, and discovered one day that you can make MORE gil/hour if you sell these things to an NPC.

I've tried BCNM's, KSNM's, and camping NM's. I prefered a guaranteed ~45k/hour killing leeches over the incomprehensible randomness of those. (You might make 30k, you might make 100k, you might die and LOSE money in the form of food. Bleh) The above also took longer.

I'll survive, but this is one more nail in the coffin, imo. If SE keeps this up, they're going to drive this (otherwise very good) game to extinction with their own economic incompotence.
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#97 Dec 12 2008 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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To the OP: Good job and well written, my sentiments exactly.

Leech Saliva was my bread and butter, but now my profits have been halved, thanks SE, thanks allot.

I have recently obtained the relic weapon I want to uprade, but am having trouble trying to figure out how I will ever get the currency needed to do it.

People are bazaaring the M. Silverpieces for an average of 1.2 million, are you kidding me? That's insane! The O. Bronzepieces drop like it's cool on Dynamis runs, so why do they cost 12k each and a hundred of the equals one M.Silverpiece which is... 1.2 million?

With these prices it will cost me about... $214,800,000 gil.

WTF!? Are you serious? Where's the logic in taking away our legitimate money making methods if you let this kind of highway robbery go on all around you?

I can continue to grumble, but I hope you see my point.
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#98 Dec 12 2008 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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To the OP: Good job and well written, my sentiments exactly.

Leech Saliva was my bread and butter, but now my profits have been halved, thanks SE, thanks allot.

I have recently obtained the relic weapon I want to uprade, but am having trouble trying to figure out how I will ever get the currency needed to do it.

People are bazaaring the M. Silverpieces for an average of 1.2 million, are you kidding me? That's insane! The O. Bronzepieces drop like it's cool on Dynamis runs, so why do they cost 12k each and a hundred of the equals one M.Silverpiece which is... 1.2 million?

With these prices it will cost me about... $214,800,000 gil.

WTF!? Are you serious? Where's the logic in taking away our legitimate money making methods if you let this kind of highway robbery go on all around you?

I can continue to grumble, but I hope you see my point.


Wow... you were planning to fund an entire relic weapon off npc'ing items?

Based on what people have been saying lets assume you were making 50k an hour farming bloods... Based on your estimate of 214800000g for a complete relic you were prepared for roughly 4300 hours of pure farming? And that's assuming you never run into competition and have reduced income or anything...

This particular means of farming was never meant to exist. Prior to the drop rate increase update they were worth sh*t and they have gone back to being worth sh*t. Aside from whiny people who apparently have never seen SE ***** over select groups of players before the world is no different than it was a month ago.

Edited, Dec 12th 2008 10:20pm by PlanckZero
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#100 Dec 12 2008 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Thief Knife patch.


Why do people keep bringing this up? From what I remember of things at that time this was in fact one of the better patches they implemented into the game. That NM was almost as bad of a MPK breeding ground as DA was pre-bst patch. Seems there are still some people out there crying because they're "accomplishment" was some how diminished by making this weapon more available to everyone.
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#101 Dec 12 2008 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
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PlanckZero wrote:
[quote]This particular means of farming was never meant to exist.[/sm][/i]


and in all these years they never put this metod away? well this is weird don't you think so? -.-
Or maybe they just don't know wtf they put on their game? -.-

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