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#1 Jan 17 2017 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
We're focusing on fixing some issues with spells and I wanted to get some feedback on this subject.

Right now when looking at spells you'll see it shows the spell scaling between different levels.

For example right now:

Level 1 Cleric Spell Courage.

1: Increase AC by 3 (L1) to 7 (L11)
2: Increase Max Hitpoints by 11 (L1) to 30 (L11)
3: Increase HP when cast by 11 (L1) to 30 (L11)

Would you rather it look like this?

1: Increase AC by 4
2: Increase Max Hitpoints by 20
3: Increase HP when cast by 20

What else would you like to see us change/fix regarding the spell system?

Edited, Jan 17th 2017 1:13pm by Gidono
#2 Jan 17 2017 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
1,141 posts
In your Courage example, if the buff scales with the level of the caster, I'd prefer to know that.

But as I understand it, many of those spells don't scale that way. For example
Shackle of Spirit
2: Decrease Attack Speed by 11% (L38) to 80% (L61)

It's my understanding that Shackle of Spirit slows to 70% regardless of what level the caster is (both EQ Resource and RaidLoot show it that way). If that is true, that is a big difference.
#3 Jan 17 2017 at 5:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Yes this happens to many spells that actually don't scale. What I would love to see is some how a way we can calculate the min and max level for scaling so people can figure out what the spell will do inbetween.

My research so far on testing some spells out on live and progression servers is that not one site is accurate with their spell parser.
#4 Jan 18 2017 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
79 posts
I've never trusted spell scaling info displayed on Zam. Felicite's example is exactly why. It isn't that I would like to see the scaling info go away but rather that Zam's interpretation of the raw data was more meaningful. It sounds like you need someone who can read raw Lucy data and fill in the blanks?
#5 Jan 18 2017 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
What do you mean by more meaningful?

We have someone who can read raw lucy data which is why we're asking for input as we work on fixing spell issues.
#6 Jan 18 2017 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
1,141 posts
Gidono wrote:
My research so far on testing some spells out on live and progression servers is that not one site is accurate with their spell parser.

That is a tough place to start from.. I'm not sure how to help.
#7 Jan 20 2017 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
79 posts
Ok, maybe I just have a hard time interpreting the data as it's displayed. Let's take a simple example:

Spirit of the Wolf:
"Increase Movement by 30% (L9) to 85% (L51)"

Is that even true (I never thought caster level mattered on SoW)? Is the range of 30% to 85% linear as level increases? Does a level 30 caster cause a speed increase of 57.5% (the middle of the range)?

I saw in the patch notes that player speed is now displayed so I guess this one can be tested.

edit: examples of silly spell data or improper interpretation of raw data:
Staff of Angry Dreams

This item is placeable in yards, guild yards, houses and guild halls.
Effect: Use Ability (Any Slot, Casting Time: Instant) at Level 85
WT: 0.1 Size: SMALL
Class: ALL
Race: ALL

Effect: Use Ability
1: Increase CHA by 1 <--------- sure it does.
Coruscating Darkness

1: Decrease Hitpoints by 120 per tick
2: Decrease Movement by 36% (L74) to 110% (L41) <------------ !!!!!

*really? a level 74 spell that is more effective at level 41?
Sigil of the Aberrant

2: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 9%
3: Increase STR by 107
4: Increase Attack Speed by 70%
6: Increase AC by 31 (L77) to 63 (L1) <--------- L1 - what does that mean?
Conglaciation of Bone

2: Decrease Hitpoints by 451 (L55) to 950 (L51) <-------- this is a level 55 spell. This range is meaningless.
4: Stun (1.00 sec)
Endure Magic

1: Increase Magic Resist by 11 (L16) to 30 (L11) <------ why does this happen so often?
Resist Poison

2: Increase Poison Resist by 11 (L30) to 50 (L31) <----- After the previous examples, why would I believe that this spell is useless at level 30 and OP 1 level later?

1: Decrease Hitpoints by 503 (L48) to 1132 (L45) <------------- again, a level 48 spell.

2: Decrease Movement by 41% (L50) to 96% (L17) <--------- Zek only spell, but still...
Circle of Winter RNG/61 DRU/51 1: Increase Fire Resist by 11 (L51) to 55 (L36) <------------- meaningless level numbers.

Well obviously I could go on indefinitely. My point was that there is a lot of spell data or data interpretation that makes you distrust data that is potentially correct. So when you tell me that a level 9 shaman casting SoW causes a 30% movement increase, I believe that. When you claim a level 51 shaman casting the same spell causes an 85% increase in speed, no, I don't believe that.

Edited, Feb 15th 2017 1:31pm by Taninger
#8 Feb 15 2017 at 11:04 PM Rating: Excellent
79 posts
Just going to bump this. Surely I am not such a total noob that this stuff gets a pass?
#9 Feb 16 2017 at 12:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Ya it doesn't make sense to me either Taninger. It's on my long list of things that I would like to see fixed. However our ZAM developer I think is busy with other projects within ZAM for the time being so I'm not sure when they will get around to looking at it. I'll keep pushing for it though as I always do.
#10 Feb 16 2017 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
2,177 posts
Effect: Use Ability
1: Increase CHA by 1 <--------- sure it does.

The above is well-understood. It's a "filler" for spell data which merely indicates the item or spell involved has some effect which usually doesn't involve buffs, damage, heal amounts, etc. It must be the way the code is designed that requires this CHA reference. Whenever you see this "stat" read more and you'll see what I mean.

The others seem to be misinterpretations of some change in how DBG stores the spell or item data in their databases. Click on the LUCY link and you can see the change history and it shows you when the info was changed on Lucy/Allakhazam. I suggest you look back and see what was there BEFORE the change to get a better idea what the spell/item's effects really are.
Sippin 105 DRU *** Max AA *** Firionia Vie
Master Artisan (300) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
My crew: 105 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ 100 SHD BER RNG PAL SHM Master Alchemist *** 85 ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
#11 Feb 16 2017 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
79 posts
Thanks Gidono, I just wanted to make sure that you understood my original comment about some spell data not being meaningful. Thanks Sippin as well for the explanation of the filler spell effect.
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