Warrior Re-envisioningFollow

WARRIORS... that's who should be focused on. I have one of almost every class beyond 60, and 4 level 70s (there is no need to make the "no life" comment). Of all classes, the warrior is BY FAR the most underpowered. You are trying to make Paladins and Shadow Knights just as good as a warrior for tanking... that's just silly. My level 70 warrior WAS my favorite class, but now the Pallies and SKs are equally strong, but THEY GET SPELLS TOO!!! Warriors should have unmatched defences and be much better DPS. I'm getting a little sick of using my 4 HATE procs for agro, while a Pally out DPSs me and still steels agro, and has the same HPs as me! What purpose does a warrior serve then?

I could care less about soloing. If I wanted to play alone, I'd play Morrowind or a better NON-online game. Make my damn warrior stronger! He should be able to fight mobs without being chain-CH'd in places like RRS or MPG. I can't cast spells so give me twice my current Hit Points or incredible defenses to make the class unique, instead of some lame non-casting wanna-be Paladin =\

Since they are NOT considered a DPS class, at the very least we should have double the HP's of the Pally/SK classes. That should be our strongpoint! If we are not made to be flashy DPS like the rogue, and we can't track or cast spells, then for the love of God, give us the HIT POINTS to make the Warrior class stand out again 8(

PLEASE!!!

I'd be happy with some reduced discipline reuse timers or reduced discipline costs (even if just for a specific defensive-type discipline or two). Then we could use things like Defensive more often to achieve greater survivability, which I think is one of your goals in the post above. Fortunately, the discipline costs/timers are being considered by SOE.

In general, I think already we make great tanks. If someone is chain CHealing us in a situation, then I bet they'd be chain CHealing a Pally or SK even more.

Edited, Tue Apr 12 11:37:15 2005 by JoltinJoe

*boggle*

How would my original post imply that I suck at Everquest? I've been playing on the same server since March 1999 and have had a very good opportunity to test all classes. The Warrior simply has nothing to make them unique anymore. Especially with the upcoming re-envisioning. They need greater defenses... period... however it must be done.

It also bothers me that a Paladin can buy a 1-h sword for about 10k with a 43/30 ratio and an Uber agro stun proc (Blade of Dispruption). Whereas the warrior has a good weapon if he can achieve a 15/20 ratio. It's simply NOT balanced. The warrior clearly is not given offensive abilities, so he should be given MUCH GREATER defensive ones!

Pally will never get Dual Wield. No if you gave the ratio a pally gets to a Dual wield class who get 2 weapons, then pallies will be screaming, with SK about being left in the dust DPS wise.

And to compare a BoD with other is not fair, yes it is good and SK,Pally only But then again thier Epic weapons suck so it is all Karma in the works lol

I've played a warrior for 5 years and by no means do i feel the class is broken.

In all high level content i can out tank any sk or pally. As for DPS, with correctly spent aa, warrior dps is really quite good. Time geared, i parsed nearly equal to similarly geared monks.

With the DoN abilitys and 30 second reuse on a VERY effective ae agro spell, warriors have nothing to complain about.

Sure a few tweaks on timers and such would be good, but really i see the warrior class as being just fine as it is.

My highest toon is in the 50's, so I can't speak for the high-end game. But up to this point I would happily take a pally, sk, or warrior along as a main tank on any ldon adventure or most other single group situations I have been in.

In a few situations where our guild has taken a force larger than one group to fight a tough mob (I hesitate to use the word raid), the warriors seem to handle the damage the best. =)

Edited, Tue Apr 12 16:49:19 2005 by JoltinJoe

Don't remind me! =p

I'm going to second this statement. Paladins have the lowest dps of all the melee characters (pure melee plus hybrids). When you add in spell damage, it's even lower (since we get virtually zero offensive spells or discs).

Yes. Knights get some "uber" 1h weapons. But that imbalance is specifically to attempt to somewhat balance the dps they lose from not having dual wield. If warriors got to use the same ratio 1h weapons as knights, they'd get *two* of them, and do somewhere around 160% of the base damage of the knights (and that's not taking into account higher base ATK, better melee charts, better inate crits, and all the other stuff that adds to warrior melee damage).

SKs *can* match a warrior in terms of DPS (and perhaps even exceed it in "burst" mode), but has to blow his mana wad doing it (casting dots and chaining lifetaps and nukes essentially). Paladins have absolutely zero ability to match warriors dps except when fighting undead. Um... Find me where the undead is that a group is going to ask me to join them in fighting due to my uber anti-undead abilties and that might become relevant. Heck. Many high level paladins don't even bother to spend the points on Slay Undead (our "defining" class AA) simply because it's completely useless 99% of the time since you aren't fighting undead 99% of the time.


When talking about class balance, you absolutely *must* compare apples to apples. I always hear people talking about what such and such class can do with X AAs combined with various gear choices. Inevitably, this is contrasted to some "base" ability of another class (see this on topics about healing all the time, when it's completely irrelevant since all classes with heal spells get access to the same healing AAs). If I had a dollar for everytime someone said that pallys (or rangers for that matter!) should not get any healing boost because: "If you make that a 2k heal, then a paladin with the best focus gear and with all his healing AAs could crit heal for 5k! That's more then the best shaman or druid heals!!!" I'd be a really wealthy man...

Same applies for melee abilities (except in cases when comparing *different* melee discs and AA abilities). Don't tell me what an Angish geared paladin can do with maxed out crit AA and maxed out SU (which btw don't stack!) while fighting undead, and whine that this is more dps then an elemental geared warriors with no AA abilities can do. That's not comparing across the board.

Show me what two equally geared tanks with equivalent amounts of AA can do to mobs that you and I will actually fight most of the time. When you make that comparison, you'll find that warriors can tank more mobs better then any other class in the game. They have more HPs, they have better mitigation, they have better inate skill levels, and they are on better melee charts. Each one of those may seem like small advantages, but when added up become *really* significant.