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Tales from the Other side (WoW for a week)Follow

#1 Jan 10 2005 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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I realize this is the main EQ forum; I'm not lost Smiley: smile

But, I really had a lot of questions about WoW before finally jumping in and playing, and I thought other people might enjoy my take on how the game compares to EQ. Why is this different than the 1000 other posts about the game?

1) I'm not a fanboi of WoW.
2) I didn't leave EQ because I was fed up with it.
3) I have at least some ability to form coherant thoughts into text.

This is hopefully a very unbiased "review" of WoW, so it may help someone decide to either jump ship and join WoW OR stay in EQ because all isn't as rosy as it appears...this writeup isn't meant to sway in either direction.

Background: 4+ years of playing EQ, max character 66 (almost 67) necro, 215aa, ele-flagged, casual hardcore player, minor raider.
Almost 2 weeks of playing WoW, max level 19 so far (I'm not a veteran by far). Please take this into consideration: I don't know everything there is to know about the game.

Graphics

You either love them or you hate them. Character models are slighly blocky, but good textures hide lots of this. Screenshots of the game really don't do it justice. Some people don't like the style of the graphics, but it grows on you after a while. I liked them from the beginning.

Graphical style is absolutely fabulous. Smooth transitions from 1 "area" to another, varied environments, overall looks nice.
Not having to load zones (except instances) makes the immersion that much better.
Character models look very basic at first, but seeing higher level people in nice looking armor is neat.

Game world interactivity / immersiveness

Actually not bad. You find random treasure chests, usually near an encampment of mobs. Sometimes they hold crap, other times minor treasures.

The immersiveness of the game is outstanding. For instance, in many of the plains areas (at least near towns), you'll see groups of zebra mobs running together like a pack..nice little touch.
You also have non-targetable birds flying, the random wolf mob chasing a little level 1 rabbit, etc. It's all pretty cool, and you almost feel like you're on a safari...sorta.

Quests

So far they've fit one of these molds:
1) Find and kill Mob X or a certain number of mob Xs.
2) Kill certain mobs to collect certain drops.
3) Explore area X.
4) Find items X, Y, and Z (in chests, etc). Usually guarded by mobs.

Most of the quests are your standard fare, but at least they give good reasoning behind them, not just "kill this guy because I want you to." Supposedly there are escort quests (ala Netherbian lair escort), but I haven't run into them yet.

Some quests follow a storyline, getting progressively harder. Some quests are timed, but are usually easy. Some quests are class-specific, and all classes seem to get at least one of these around level 10. For instance, my mage (think wizard) got a quest for a clicky insta-mana regen orb at level 10 (with a 30min reuse timer), and my warlock got his quest to get his level 10 pet. Druids get their quest for their first shape change, and I think my rogue got his quest for a good dagger. I'm pretty sure these happen at level 20, and at least at level 40 also for the paladin and warlock mounts.

Quest givers are easily spotted, which is a feature I find very helpful...the capital cities are so huge, it's sometimes very hard to remember where certain mobs are...but *usually* the quest log will have a detailed description of where the turnin guy is at, and your mini-map will spot them when you're in range.

Other players

This one takes a HUGE ding against it. Yes, there are ********* in EQ, but for the most part I found people helpful.
In WoW, it's basically a crapshoot. Think about this: You have some EQ fallouts, some SWG, a *lot* of FFXI (ugh), and some Lineage, etc.

The quality of people you find playing can vary, widely...very widely. Overally, it hasn't been bad so far. I've played on both PVP and PVE servers, but truthfully I didn't venture too much on the PVP server to actually get myself into trouble...so I can't report on how bad "griefing" is at the moment (much higher level players killing lower levels because they can).

Game Stability and Bugs

This category will take a few dings, but nothing too major.
Over the past 2 weeks or so, I've had only 2 crashes to desktop...not bad. And strangely, they both happened whlie doing the most mundane tasks (shopping at a vendor, or talking to someone).

As for bugs, I've found a couple. There's a "fake mining vein" bug, where you find an ore vein while exploring, start to mine it..bend down to loot...and your'e stuck like that. You can move, fight, etc, but you're stuck in a crouching position and can't loot anything else.

There's a "mob didn't really forget me" bug. At least I THINK this is a bug. Basically, mobs in WoW forget you after a while if you run away...and return to their spawn point. Problems arise if you have a pet that's aggrod the mob also.

For instance: My warlock has a tank pet now, and he can cast fear. Let's say I get jumped by a mob, pet attacks it...I don't feel like killing it, so I fear it, put pet in "passive" mode, and we go about our way. Way down the road, I decide to fight a mob...and outta nowhere comes the feared mob from before...We're normally way past the "forget threshold", but for some reason me having a pet makes the mob come to us.

Overall, though, not many bugs and amazingly stable for being so young of a game...not counting the long beta testing.

Tradeskills

These I absolutely love. First, all characters can learn fishing, cooking, and first aid.

Character can only learn two primary tradeskills...and it's a hard choice! Skinning, leatherworking, smithing, mining, engineering, alchemy, herbalism, enchanting, tailoring.

Some combinations come naturally. Happen to be a rogue (leather)? Pick skinning and leatherworking to make your own [useful!] armor. Warrior? You might want mining and smithing.

The thing is, amazingly, nearly all tradeskill items are cool! At least what I've seen so far...so it's sometimes a tough choice choosing.

For instance, my warlock character has mining for raw materials, and engineering to create bombs, scopes, mechanical squirrels (yes..you heard that), all sorts of stuff.

But, because I took these 2 skills, I'm missing out on tailoring (for my own armor), or herbalism+alchemy for my own potions.

There are two ways to "get around" this:
1) Just buy what you need from the auction houses.
2) Create another character on same server, pick 2 different skills, level them up, then use the mailbox system to send items to one another(sorta like shared bank slots in EQ).

Tradeskills are nice in other ways, besides actually having useful items.

1) When you initially learn a skill, you're given some sample patterns/recipes/blueprints. Clicking on the item will show you what you need to create it. If you have the items, you can click "create" and you'll never fail the combine. You can choose to "make all", make a certain number, or just make 1 of an item.

2) When you reach certain skill levels, other recipes open up for you. You simply pay for the design from the trainer, and you can then create the new item. Some designs are actually mob-loot-only, so you sometimes get lucky and find a nice robe design (or mechanical squirrel!).

I really, really enjoy the tradeskill aspect much more than in EQ, even after EQ made their UI changes.

Group dynamics

Sadly, I haven't seen much of this, and I think EQ wins here (though maybe it's different higher up). This isn't really a fault of WoW, but a design...because all classes can solo in WoW.

So, while it may be fun to group with people, etc, often you'll see people soloing, so it's uncommon to learn at a low level how to work well with one another.

Supposedly this changes around level 20, where grouping becomes viable (while soloing still very possible). But, so far, the grouping doesn't seem to mesh together as well as EQ does.

Character / class depth

First, the races really don't have amazing statistical advantages over one another. It's perfectly viable to have an orc warlock or gnome warrior. Yes, the gnome will be slightly weaker than the orc, but he'll get more dodges in melee, so it's a moot point.

Racial abilities, though, are sometimes awesome, sometimes useless.

For instance, Undead have 300% extended underwater breathing, +10 shadow magic resistance, they can cannabalize undead or humanoid corpses for +health regen (cooldown: 2 minutes), and they have a 20sec insta-ability to become immune to fear, charm, and sleep (useful in pvp).

Humans I think get the short end of the stick.
+10% faction modifier for quests..big deal.
+5% spirit..not bad.
+5 swords..nothing special
20sec stealth detection (activated), 3 mins cooldown...pretty pointless unless you're PVP vs a rogue or hidden druid, and you know they're around somewhere.

The point is, the racial abilities are varied, which is nice. Orcs get +5% pet damage bonus, Tauren have +5% health and an *awesome* 2second AE stun stomp, 2 minute cooldown. Night elves have innate no-move hide, and if they're a hiding class (rogue, druid in cat form), they're harder to detect than other races.

I could go on and on about the races, but there are multiple web writeups about them.

Class depth is decent, although they look simple on the surface. For instance, the mage start off as just a regular spell shooting guy (and pretty much stays like that)...BUT, you start getting spells that let you do other things. You get transformation, which basically turns 1 mob into a sheep for about 15 seconds, and you get various cold spells to either shield you, slow attack speed, or freeze mobs into place.

As you level, you're slowly introduced to new spells, so you get time to learn what they do. Also, in a nice touch, you get new spells / abilities about every 2 levels, so things stay new.

Server Issues

1) Lag. Really bad lag during peak times. Thankfully, this usually happens only on the "HIGH" population servers (login screen shows you the population of servers..high, medium, low).

It's really almost a Catch-22 situation. If you want a larger pool of people to play with, and a more varied economy (with lots of auction house selections), you're better off on a high population server...just beware the lag can become unbearable.

2) Login server always going down. Truthfully I've only run into the situation 2 times in 2 weeks, but it's annoying, and like any video game addict 15 minutes of downtime seems like 15 hours.
Maybe EQ and Blizzard buy their login servers from Emachines..who knows.

3) Server issues. Sometimes a server's AH (auction house) just stops reponding...as do merchants. Sometimes the server just drops out of commission. It's nothing rampant, thankfully, but it does happen.

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I wish I could write a bunch more, but frankly I don't have the time or space to do it ;)

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. Overall, though, I definitely don't regret buying the game. It's well done, easily accessible, and takes some skill to pull certain things off. But, it's not a huge time sink if you don't want it to be.














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Dustmite - 50 Mage
Orcen - 50 Warlock
Jonus - 39 Priest
All Retired


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#2 Jan 10 2005 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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But, it's not a huge time sink if you don't want it to be.


Neither is EQ at level 19. What will it be like when it grows up is what I wish to know Smiley: smile
#3 Jan 10 2005 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I haven't decided whether I will buy WoW - I've got a real-life friend and EQ guildmate who keeps encouraging me to; he's pretty much left EQ entirely for WoW - but either way, I do appreciate your excellent overview. Thank you.
#4 Jan 10 2005 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Neither is EQ at level 19. What will it be like when it grows up is what I wish to know


True, EQ at level 19 isn't much of a hog either ;)

By that timesink statement, though, I meant it's just easier to get the same amount of "work" done at WoW, or at least it seems to be.

Goals seem to still take work, but there's less time sink factor.

Spawns for quests reappear very quickly. Drops for quests (usually) don't take forever, though sometimes they do. Travel around the game is pretty easy, though thankfully there isn't a POK (I mean, some work should be involved).

Also, because there really isn't that bad of a death penalty, messing up and dying doesn't set you back but a little money if you don't want to corpse run...this is a huge bonus IMO.

So yeah, I can ***** up, die, and log out knowing I won't be sweating to get my lost exp back, etc.


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So far, yeah WoW seems like I can accomplish more in a given hour than at EQ, but like you said we'll see what happens in the upper levels. The fact that you don't have to group at any point during your toon's career automatically saves time, because you're not sitting there LFG...so that's a consideration to take.

Mentioning EQ's LFG tool -- Blows WoW outta the water, since there's no LFG tool in WoW, just a LFG chat channel.

____________________________
Noe - 55 Druid
Dustmite - 50 Mage
Orcen - 50 Warlock
Jonus - 39 Priest
All Retired


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Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart.

#5 Jan 10 2005 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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There are apparently quite a lot of broken quests - I bugged one the other day, and went to the forum to see if it was already known. I was surprised to find an almost-EQlike atmosphere ("I'm canceling my account, you obviously don't care about your customers who pay you money to play this piece of crap game, blah blah blah blah").

There has been and continues to be a problem with lag. This takes many forms - critters that hit you but can't be hit, inability to resurrect, inability to mine/harvest and loot. (Incidentally if you get the last one, camp out and come back in and you'll be fine.)

The people I've run into have been a pleasant surprise, for the most part. Someone yesterday was complaining that a GM had changed two of his characters' names, obviously expecting sympathy (Blizzard suxxors omg!). When we found out what his characters' names were, though (one was Noobkillah or something similar, don't remember the other), everyone in the channel was ripping him. It was all pretty good-natured.

I've never had trouble getting help on a quest, or directions, etc. People do get impatient with questions coming from those who have patently not ready the quest text, and understandably so.

It isn't EQ: the Early Days, and nothing ever will be again. But it's a fun game when you don't have a lot of time to play.
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#6 Jan 10 2005 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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Excellent post! Have you done your EQ2 post yet?

You mentioned a small map, I assume that is the area right around you like on many video games. Is there also a large map? You can tell I get easily lost by my question, I need something to tell me where I am at all times. The you are here spell.

I really wish there was a way to try an online video game on a small scale. If I liked them I would buy, but I have a real problem paying $50, plus fees, plus keeping EQ going at the same time.
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#7 Jan 10 2005 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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If I liked them I would buy, but I have a real problem paying $50, plus fees, plus keeping EQ going at the same time.
I would also like to try WoW and EQ2 out. Hate to be out $50 bucks on a gamble. They should offer 30 day free trial downloads.
#8 Jan 10 2005 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You mentioned a small map, I assume that is the area right around you like on many video games. Is there also a large map?


Yeah, the mini-map is a small circle in the upper right corner of your screen, showing your immediate surroundings (including, if you like, areas where you can harvest or mine). You can hit "M" to toggle a larger world map.
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#9 Jan 11 2005 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, the mini-map is a small circle in the upper right corner of your screen, showing your immediate surroundings (including, if you like, areas where you can harvest or mine). You can hit "M" to toggle a larger world map.


The map features they have are really nice. I like that feature a lot.

The little minimap in the upper corner shows the terrain like an overhead shot. You show up as a little dot.

If you have a "track" ability those will show up as dots as well. Moving the mouse over the dots will then show up the name.

Makes it nice in dungeon type environments, knowing where the placement of them are all at and watching them move around.

Your big map doesn't show anything until you actually visit an area. Once you do you get some token explore XP and then the area becomes visible on the main map.

Just made level 33 myself and I have to say that the initial write up is pretty much right on with what to expect in the game.

I really think one of the misconceptions of the game is how easy it is to level.

I don't think it's really any easier than EQ from a pure xp standpoint. The only difference is that everyone can solo and the no xp loss on death.

It'd be hard for a WoW person to reach 60 faster than a steady EQ group that worked well together.

I do a pretty good mixture of grouping and soloing in WoW up till now and am at 5 days /played to reach level 33. To me, that seems pretty similar in time needed.
#10 Jan 11 2005 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I do believe both with EQ2 and WOW you get a 30 day trial. You still have to buy the game though.

Great write up OP and very well on target. I too, am an old timer in EQ and have basically retired from the game. I tried EQ2 and did love it, until I got to level 20+ and could not do anything without a group. Having played EQ for over 4 years, and grinding, my mind was looking for something I could do on my own without the hassle of LFG. I have basically switched to WOW on the basis I can solo when I want, along with popping off and on for short bursts and actually get something done.

Both WoW and EQ2 is not for everyone. I know people who have tried them and preferred EQ. I know others who have stopped gaming entirely. I think it very much depends on what you are looking for, or need in a game, and if the game fits you.
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#11 Jan 16 2005 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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Hmmm was thinking of playing WoW since I hit lvl 20 in EQ2 ( ya soloing is harder at 20 plus it seems ).Love the grafixs is EQ2 but something is missing.... I also miss the bazzar.

I have played EQ1 for 4 plus years as well and had 3 accounts for for the last 2 years that I played. Still miss my Troll BL at times and my assling druid P.

I perfer to solo mostly now as grouping is so hit and miss on good player or honest ones. Plus LFG bs.

Sounds like WoW maybe better for the soloer. Anyone know what soloing is like after lvl 20 in wow ?
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#12 Jan 16 2005 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I hit 23 yesterday in WoW and I have yet to lack for targets. But Im stll young.
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#13 Jan 17 2005 at 12:48 AM Rating: Default
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Also, because there really isn't that bad of a death penalty, messing up and dying doesn't set you back but a little money if you don't want to corpse run...this is a huge bonus IMO.


... actually I think this is slight off. I believe the XP penalty is about the same especially at the lower levels. In fact most of the lower levels I shoot through much faster in EQ. But the reason it doesnt seem so bad is unlike EQ you dont have to sit and wait 3 hours for a group to get your xp back.

The single biggest attraction about WoW to me is unlike EQ time, dedication and skill are the biggest factors in your success. Also you can always make headway regardless of how many people are on. I dont know it compensates for the lack of depth in the game though.

Edited, Mon Jan 17 00:51:23 2005 by dracoboars
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#14 Jan 17 2005 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I was flat addicted to WoW for a while and left EQ, even cancelled the account for WoW. Well I was fine till about a week ago when a friend got me back in EQ and I have not logged into WoW since then, am still trying to make up my mind which to keep but I do like a lot of stuff about WoW but I dont have any close friends that play WoW right now.

Overall both are good in their own ways, but the review was really good.
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#15 Jan 17 2005 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
... actually I think this is slight off. I believe the XP penalty is about the same especially at the lower levels. In fact most of the lower levels I shoot through much faster in EQ. But the reason it doesnt seem so bad is unlike EQ you dont have to sit and wait 3 hours for a group to get your xp back.


Eh? You don't lose 1 point of EXP in WoW upon death, only armor durability and you have a significant rezz sickness which seems to get a longer duration the higher level you are.

I thought you were supposed to lose EXP upon death but I've specifically watched my EXP bar several times (with numerical values up) and they didn't change when dying, either from a Spirit Healer rezz or a self-rezz (ie corpse run).


As for the poster asking how life is after 20..well today I finally hit 20 with my druid. I can still solo things quite well, and actually I'm finding the class depth to increase, which is good.

I thought at first playing the druid was going to be simple, but they're described as actually one of the more complex classes to play. After playing with shapeshifting, I thought it to be pretty worthless at first...

However, after a bit more playing around with the system, the druid is turning into an enjoyable character to play. I can start with a few debuffs / Dots in caster form, then switch to bear form when a mob gets close enough to engage. I gain a huge AC bonus, significant HP boost, ATK boost, and I get a few special bear-only abilities I really like (bash vs. casters, stronger melee attack, taunt, etc).

Anyway, gonna cut this post short, I just made 20, got my cat form and now I'm gonna pretend I'm a rogue =D But at least at 20, lots and lots of mobs and soloability is still there for MOST quests...some though it's nice to get help.


____________________________
Noe - 55 Druid
Dustmite - 50 Mage
Orcen - 50 Warlock
Jonus - 39 Priest
All Retired


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Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart.

#16 Jan 18 2005 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Eh? You don't lose 1 point of EXP in WoW upon death, only armor durability and you have a significant rezz sickness which seems to get a longer duration the higher level you are.


You may not have been high enough hen you died I think it starts at level 15 (similar to EQ not subtracting xp til level 10). Also similar to EQ I understand certain deaths dont cause XP loss.


I also was at first very disappointed at the lack of class depth only to be somewhat suprised. I am playing a hunter and managing agro between me and my pet is a little more difficult then I imagined and is very fun.
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#17 Jan 18 2005 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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There is no XP penalty for death in WoW. The only side effects are the corpse run which may take several minutes or rez sickness (if you get a rez from a player, yourself, or from the angel at the graveyard). Oh, and minor damage to your gear if you go for the rez (which you can get repaired for a small fee). The rez sickness gets longer as you level higher though. It's about 10 minutes for me at level 30. The rez sickness basically makes you unable fo fight, as your armor, heath, and mana (I think) are at 75% penalty.

Anyway, was just passing through....
#18 Jan 18 2005 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Lady deadsidedemon wrote:
I tried EQ2 and did love it, until I got to level 20+ and could not do anything without a group. Having played EQ for over 4 years, and grinding, my mind was looking for something I could do on my own without the hassle of LFG. I have basically switched to WOW on the basis I can solo when I want, along with popping off and on for short bursts and actually get something done.


I noticed this too about EQ2, but it turned out to be mostly a temporary thing. Once a character is in their mid-late 20s, they can happily solo to their 40s again without much trouble in Zek/Enchanted Lands. It's odd enough where it makes me think that they just didn't test the 20-25ish level range much at all, and does seem to be a game-killer for a lot of people.
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#19 Jan 19 2005 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
The OP could just as easy have been about EQ2.. :)

EQ2 has better tradeskilling then WoW imo and I like that EQ2 is more group oriented. Although you can solo at any level without any problems, sure xp is slower then a good group but many times solo xp is better then a sucky group. Im not talking pre level 20 here, Im talking all levels.
The thing I dont like with both games are that they feel 'dumbed' down compared to EQ1. EQ2 is worse then WoW in this aspect imo.

EQ1 is still the best game around but EQ2 has potentiall to be just as great, might take a few expansions and some patching though.
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#20 Jan 19 2005 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The OP could just as easy have been about EQ2.. :)

EQ2 has better tradeskilling then WoW imo and I like that EQ2 is more group oriented. Although you can solo at any level without any problems, sure xp is slower then a good group but many times solo xp is better then a sucky group. Im not talking pre level 20 here, Im talking all levels.
The thing I dont like with both games are that they feel 'dumbed' down compared to EQ1. EQ2 is worse then WoW in this aspect imo.

EQ1 is still the best game around but EQ2 has potentiall to be just as great, might take a few expansions and some patching though.



Ditto. They do both feel dumbed down compared to EQ1. Not as immersive as the old EQ. Sitting LFG for hours in EQ is an experience I never want to repeat though, so it's WoW for me for now. EQ2 could have really rocked if they hadn't dumbed it down to attract the masses. Ah well.
#21 Jan 19 2005 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Agree with you on EQ2. Played up to level 20; could not get a group died twice trying to do a quest; and then quit the game for a week. Came back made another character went up to level 20 and could not get any groups again (different server). IMHO SOE needs to get over the death penalty in EQ and in EQ2. Spent an hour last night recovery from a wipe when the group I was in was trained. On a side note (Cazic-Thule server) seems a lot of tanks have left the game and or either running other toons, doing WoW or EQ2. Having talked to people I know who are playing online: so far males are playing WoW and females like EQ2 this is out of a group of 30 people (approx. half males).
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#22 Jan 19 2005 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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That would be an interesting poll. I'm female and prefer WoW over EQ2, absolutely.

Still play EQ but it seems like a dying game atm.
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#23 Jan 19 2005 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Having talked to people I know who are playing online: so far males are playing WoW and females like EQ2 this is out of a group of 30 people (approx. half males).


Just had to laugh when I saw that line because it seems so TRUE!

The few remaining people I haven't dragged over to WoW with me are female.

I don't understand why that is...
#24 Jan 19 2005 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
I do not see EQ as a dying game, although it was rather light for a period after Christmas. The penalty for dying in EQ is one of the things that I like - I want the challenge, I want the hair on the back of my neck standing up as I enter a location I've never been, I want to be on-edge and exhausted after just barely escaping with my skin. I want risk - otherwise, it becomes just another frivolous activity!

Long Live EQ!
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